5 Ways to Know You Are Ready to Lead this Fall

As schools start, church leaders and volunteers need to ensure they are ready for fall activities. Dan Reiland, executive pastor at 12 Stone Church, helps us prepare ourselves for the next few months.

Youtube - https://youtu.be/TlpDPEX5KcI

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Apple -  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/more-to-the-story-with-dr-andy-miller/id1569988895?uo=4

Dan’s website: danreiland.com

Link to his latest book: shorturl.at/gqsy6

Contender: Going Deeper in the Book of Jude - This all-inclusive small group study on the book of Jude is out now. Check it out on the course page: http://courses.andymilleriii.com

Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching - I’m excited to share some news with you.  Recently, I updated this PDF document and added a 45-minute teaching video with slides, explaining this tool. It's like a mini-course. If you sign up for my list, I will send this free resource to you. Sign up here - www.AndyMillerIII.com or Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching.

Today’s episode is brought to you by these two sponsors:

Bill Roberts is a financial advisor, who has been serving the retirement planning and investment needs of individuals, families, non-profits, and churches for 25 years. He is a Certified Financial Planner and accredited investment fiduciary. Bill specializes in working with Salvation Army employees and officers by helping them realize their financial goals.  You can find out more about Bill’s business at www.WilliamHRoberts.com

AND

Wesley Biblical Seminary - Interested in going deeper in your faith? Check out our certificate programs, B.A., M.A.s, M.Div., and D.Min degrees. You will study with world-class faculty and the most racially diverse student body in the country. www.wbs.edu

Thanks too to Phil Laeger for the new podcast music. You can find out about Phil's music at https://www.laeger.net

Transcript

Welcome to the more to the story podcast I am glad you're here look, those of you who are church leaders, you are going to hear something today that is going to impact you significantly at this exact moment so hang on just for a second because you're you're going to enjoy.

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Andy Miller III: And really be find the content today useful Now I want you to make sure you know that this podcast is sponsored by Wesley biblical seminary where we are developing.

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Andy Miller III: trusted leaders for faithful churches, that means that there are churches out there, we know are looking for pastors they can trust that are well equipped.

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Andy Miller III: That are trained, who are ready to serve and we love the opportunity we get to pour into students, and so we have a variety of programs.

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Andy Miller III: From bachelor's master's doctorate degrees that are available that help equip people to be ready for church leadership.

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Andy Miller III: And secondly, I want to make sure you know about two things that are available from Andy Miller, the third calm, first, I have a free tool that's available to 45 minute teaching.

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Andy Miller III: That is five steps to deeper teaching and preaching and it's an eight page PDF document so if you sign up for our email list you'll get that for free, then, secondly i've just introduced something last month that came out it's this six week study for small groups Sunday school groups.

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Andy Miller III: Some actually some families are using our family devotions a study of the book of jude now, this might seem like you might even forget that the Book of jude even there.

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Andy Miller III: it's right before revelation just 25 verses but I found it to be incredibly relevant.

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Andy Miller III: For our time so I just wanna encourage you go to any Miller third calm take a look as if you're looking for some curriculum or a study to use for your small group.

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Andy Miller III: This would be a great resource it's called contender so i'd love for you to check that out.

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Andy Miller III: Alright, so today I have the treat to have on somebody i've admired for a long time, a leader who's led in church a church world and a variety of places, one of the.

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Andy Miller III: strongest churches in the western tradition, I think, is 12 stone Church, which is in that county and we have their executive pastor on with us, Dan Riley and Dan we are a fan of yours Thank you so much for coming on.

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Dan Reiland: Well it's a wonderful welcome Thank you Andy i'm delighted to be here and looking forward to our conversation.

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Andy Miller III: Well, we one of the things that's happened is you i'm really interesting to hear about your story, but I I served in that county and admire from afar, it will farming distance.

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Andy Miller III: While I was serving other church just a great way that 12 stone Church was making an impact for the Kingdom in that Community and as somebody else serving in a.

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Andy Miller III: pastoral leadership role it's like oh man, they have got it, I felt like I know it may not feel this.

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Andy Miller III: way to you have an inside knowing all the details, but they've got it all they are just rolling and it's it's awesome to see the way you're doing that So could you tell me a little bit just about your story and how you got to.

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Andy Miller III: This position, and not just position, but the opportunities that god's given you to to serve and use your gifts.

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Dan Reiland: Absolutely absolutely well i'm we may have heard about this a long time ago, but i'm actually a native of southern California born and raised in San Diego so it was quite a shock to my system to come from the Pacific Ocean to the chattahoochee river yeah.

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Andy Miller III: hahaha that's.

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Dan Reiland: that's a very it's a big trade and either God was in it, or i'm not very smart but anyway, I.

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Dan Reiland: got here and been at 12 stone for 20 years now, is xp and so loving at 12 stone, as you know, is a is a multi site church we're just launching our eighth campus next month and.

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Dan Reiland: I think I just have been here 20 years and loving every minute of it so we're excited about our next gen ministries and our residency.

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Dan Reiland: We have a really cool residency a two year program for students who are ministry students.

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Dan Reiland: And they they join us and we pour into them train them develop them as leaders and help them get placed in other churches it's really cool and we're in church planting and obviously the whole big idea, the umbrella for everything is reaching more people for Christ.

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Dan Reiland: Yes, so that's where we are and i'm loving it and I have to tell you, since last time we've talked I have a granddaughter.

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Dan Reiland: Okay yeah and my daughter is now pregnant again with twin boys so.

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Dan Reiland: My yeah that's a cool thing.

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Andy Miller III: Yes, no, no, no lot of people I didn't know, and I said this, because a lot of my audience is connected kind of like a evangelical Wesley and world that's not a part of your branding but you know 12 stone is a part of the wesleyan church.

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Dan Reiland: Is that rightly or 100% or less than church and that was just it's not in the name but absolutely we're Kevin and I are ordained Leslie and elders So yes.

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Andy Miller III: So in you've served other Western churches to Francis skyline and you were there with john maxwell's that right.

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Dan Reiland: that's right, I was his exact pastor there in San Diego for a long time I joined him right off after seminary.

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Dan Reiland: My my claim to fame is with john is that I broke the internship.

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Dan Reiland: is his first intern there a million years ago early 80s and he literally said at the end of completion of my one year internship there.

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Dan Reiland: Is that we're never doing that again or never have another internship or never you know I must have been so bad I broke the Internet now there's redemption to the story at that same conversation, he also said, but then I want you to stay on staff with me and let's do this together and.

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Dan Reiland: jumped in jumped on board eventually became his exact exact pastor and.

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Dan Reiland: we've served together we served together for 20 years and we're still very close we do a lot of projects together hang out together some vacation and stuff so he says to wonderful really, really amazing friend.

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Andy Miller III: yeah so when you came to Atlanta, did you come, I know, like he started enjoy, and I think I told you like, I have somebody I went through the old vhs 20.

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Andy Miller III: People laws of leadership, so I got it I know a bit of His story in that of like wanting to be in the Atlanta area is that how you got to Atlanta or 12 stone.

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Dan Reiland: yeah no actually you're right we relocated in 97 but some of the closing years of the old enjoy remember cassette tapes at all, yes, that the young listeners look that.

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Andy Miller III: up my dad told me about that yeah yeah exactly exactly.

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Dan Reiland: So yeah we we all came about 50 of US 50 families came out.

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Dan Reiland: Really and and to launch the different companies, you know, like he quipped and different things that were part of those early days and and for those for those years we traveled the country were in many, many churches, training, coaching writing curriculums.

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Dan Reiland: And that's what really burst, a lot of those kits we used to call them in the old days.

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Dan Reiland: I tell you where they came from released, because you know john such a great leader and motivational teacher that he would get these thousands of pastors fired up and then they would go home and sit at their desk and go, but I don't know how to do it.

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Dan Reiland: Interesting that's what birth all those books and tapes that he's been doing, I think he's a book 96 right now.

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Andy Miller III: amazing.

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Dan Reiland: yeah, and that includes all the little ones, and everything but that's Charlie what so you may recall his his writer.

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Andy Miller III: And I think a.

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Dan Reiland: Look at, for you know with him.

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Dan Reiland: wow.

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Andy Miller III: You guys so much that they work there, and so he's been engaged to like the 12 stone world like there's a john Maxwell Center that you guys opened up, while I was in going to.

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Dan Reiland: Is that is that right.

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Dan Reiland: yeah it is Maxwell leadership Center right that's like things like our residency or inside there and equip equip officers are there and so yeah it's a very kind of lowness his name for that leadership development part of us.

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Andy Miller III: Interesting so you've you've had opportunity and I like I you mentioned to me that there are opportunities probably a company, you could have served, probably as a lead pastor at a in a large church yourself but you've had this unique seat.

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Andy Miller III: really thinking about the time period where you've served like being at skyline which at the time was one of the larger churches in the country, and now, like the various phases of gone.

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Andy Miller III: You know, through the life of the church and multi site and you've been a part of a lot of this and you've sat in unique seats, what are some of the things I mean I this a huge question, I know, but what are.

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Andy Miller III: Some things that you that you've learned from those seats out a lot of us who haven't had that perspective might be able to learn from.

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Dan Reiland: You know the second chair.

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Andy Miller III: Is that yeah yeah that's right and even the changes that have happened in the life of large churches.

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Dan Reiland: Well, that is, that is being a couple of couple of directions there i'll keep.

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Andy Miller III: It brief jump in sorry i'm sorry.

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Dan Reiland: we're going into visit this is great, this is great, but but yeah obviously there have been huge changes over over decades of time, maybe just a couple quick comments there, I think I think the biggest thing is that Ministry has become far more complicated.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, the it's it's just more nuanced whether its cultural issues political issues we get it, we know all the things happening.

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Dan Reiland: But it's it's you know when I pray for and train and mentor young leaders black I pray for them a lot, because I think what they're doing is just so much more complicated and and one things we have to know we should understand about leadership is that.

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Dan Reiland: speed and pressure pace and pressure is everything so as an organization grows and culture around us gets more complex, but two things happen, one that, as it gets bigger it gets faster.

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Dan Reiland: that's just life and then and then pressure increases so speed and pressure, and you know, the thing is, we we go too fast, sometimes we need to learn how to slow down, you know, secondly there's a great temptation to.

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Dan Reiland: handle our pressure in unhealthy ways.

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Andy Miller III: yeah.

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Dan Reiland: And that gets leaders in trouble, and so, as the organization rises as pressure rises it's really important to learn healthy ways to deal with the pressure again that's a whole other thing.

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Dan Reiland: But yeah sure those those things are really important as i'm watching things change now and going into the future yeah.

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Andy Miller III: yeah well and that's part of what I was interested why I contacted us because I was intrigued by a blog that you put out last week and it, I think it will resonate with where people are right now.

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Andy Miller III: getting ready to lead like can you say it's the title is five ways to know you're ready to lead this fall.

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Andy Miller III: Now, honestly, when I clicked on that, like occasionally your blog does this in a great way it says, like, for instance, if you're trying to train greeters like you have a great make sure they're doing these five things that they had were Clean Clothes or I don't know.

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Dan Reiland: I can't remember what the points are but they're great and like it's like.

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Andy Miller III: I take that printed off let's do this.

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Andy Miller III: Well, this was a little different.

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Andy Miller III: Because I was almost looking for a checklist that I be able to share with people and say you know, make sure that you are calling your list, make sure you're doing this, but that that's not the perspective, you take it and that's not the perspective, you take.

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Andy Miller III: In leadership in general, either it's not it's not as much of a perspective of are These are the things you do rather, this is the type of person that you are so like you.

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Andy Miller III: To tell me about like what led you to even think about putting this article together and then we'll then we'll talk about what did you say.

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Dan Reiland: Okay yeah well you're right you're very perceptive and I think most leadership is it you know it's an it's an inner thing it's interior.

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Dan Reiland: yeah so for for what we do outside.

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Dan Reiland: We have to, we have to have we have to be right inside, I think all leadership development begins with self awareness.

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Dan Reiland: And so.

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Dan Reiland: It starts there at layers into into character at layers into habits and layers into practices just layers into all kinds of things and so that inner world and I don't mean to be i'm not a contemplative necessarily but that inner world is important reflection, and so I think.

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Dan Reiland: I think, for us to get the outside stuff right we we typically have to start with the inside know there's a there's a marriage between the two, of course.

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Andy Miller III: Right and i'm.

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Dan Reiland: not talking about a monastic movement here.

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Andy Miller III: yeah yeah.

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Dan Reiland: But, but so that's often where where I start, because I think that's where the trouble when when leaders go off the rails when leaders go off the track ish rarely about.

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Dan Reiland: A project they don't know how to do or program they don't know how to run usually goes off the rails inside somewhere.

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Dan Reiland: And so we try to we try I try to write to that space often.

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Dan Reiland: And like you mentioned balancing it with some good lists on do this and do that occasionally do.

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Andy Miller III: yeah I think that they're all helpful things to be able to include it went well imagine somebody like when they even see the tall title of this podcast and in your blog on this subject when they approach the fall there's either excitement or dread.

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Dan Reiland: Yes, yes.

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Andy Miller III: And like a part of what you're doing in 12 so you're trying to help people get ready for that inner like what is it about this um the cycle that it makes it so hard for us to approach it.

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Dan Reiland: You mean the fall or.

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Andy Miller III: Even getting back into fall season and being prepared for.

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Andy Miller III: Like getting our inner selves ready or even just pull ourselves up to do it.

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Dan Reiland: yeah just whatever it is, I think I think a lot of it is.

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Dan Reiland: well.

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Dan Reiland: In the simplest, most basis, are you prepared or not, no one enjoys coming into a season unprepared.

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Dan Reiland: And so, if you're if you're going through this summer and maybe there's some struggles or you're still reflecting on the past that you know that some of the things we've gone through.

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Dan Reiland: And you you're uncertain about you're uncertain you're coming into uncertainties.

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Dan Reiland: that's what throws a lot of leaders off see here's what here's what I think I think is a big difference, you know I know we've never been able to predict the future, however, there were a lot of things that were predictable and the things that were predictable aren't anymore.

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Dan Reiland: So that just that produces an anxiety it produces an uncertainty it produces question much it produces things inside us that make us question ourselves and actually can lower our confidence.

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Dan Reiland: And so, all those things that kind of rattle us on the inside, even though we smell good and say the right things on the outside.

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Dan Reiland: And i'm not saying anybody's pretending i'm just saying we're doing what leaders need to do sometimes you you play hurt you know you can go and.

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Dan Reiland: So those are the things that are on my mind, and I think they're on the minds of a lot of leaders just trying to you know and then i'll give one more thing I think there's a certain stress about is it going to work.

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Andy Miller III: I right.

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Dan Reiland: who's who's going to come will this land you how is it you know what's The next thing coming I think those are the things that make us a little anxious.

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Andy Miller III: Right, and this is true, no matter the size of the church you, sir.

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Andy Miller III: I mean this is this is going to be the case and trying to figure out where things are going.

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Andy Miller III: This is a key moment that people have and maybe some are there, like I know some schools have already started around the country.

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Andy Miller III: And that this is the kind of like time that we have to be able to get some momentum get some organization in place so it's encouraged people now, but the don't neglect the inner reality is that's my challenge, so you go through five things.

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Andy Miller III: That help people think about.

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Andy Miller III: Being inner ready, so to speak for the fall, and this will help them as a you know folks there's a work through it So the first thing you say is that they need at and have anticipation over uncertainty now you indicate that this this idea can lead to momentum how's that.

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yeah.

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Dan Reiland: Well, I love this thought thanks for letting us, let us talk about it here, but we have sort of already talking about uncertainties.

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Dan Reiland: That we all are in I mean whether it's your 401k or whatever you know some friends or we call this gun no it's not you know all these kind of things you know.

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Dan Reiland: But when you deal with uncertainties it's what we all deal with uncertainties, but it's what wins in your mind.

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Dan Reiland: Because there's there's always that battle that leaders play and back and forth, and what wins in your mind in scripture we know to Romans 12, but is it on the does the uncertainty win, or does the anticipation when.

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Dan Reiland: How you get there really matters, you have to be honest with yourself but.

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Dan Reiland: They the action the actionable thing that to do there is or the to do question is, can you actually see the good Can you see the good in the future, can you see the vision, can you see the hope, can you see the dream, in the future and and help people get their.

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Dan Reiland: Project Andy in your in your role you're a positive guy or a smart guy you got a lot of energy that in your role see can you.

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Dan Reiland: see that that would that positive vision focused anticipation, in the near future of what you're trying to accomplish.

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Dan Reiland: Because when if the Leader can see it and, of course, that trickles down if you can see it that's the beginning of if you can anticipate and see it that's the beginning of momentum and they give you an example here.

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Dan Reiland: I mentioned earlier, I think we're we're launching a new campus in September yeah I can see it, I absolutely I can see it, I can see the people coming.

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Dan Reiland: it's strong it's going to be a strong launch the preparation is the preparation is there, but that the campus pastor he can see it, the people that that the those who are going to be going out with us.

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Dan Reiland: So see that kind of sense when I say in a real I mean a real practical way I can see it.

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Andy Miller III: Yes, yes.

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Dan Reiland: That sense of authentic anticipation leads to momentum.

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Dan Reiland: awesome yeah because you're praying for it you're looking for it you're anticipating it and that's It really is the launch that way yeah.

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Andy Miller III: Oh, I love that this thinking of leadership as anticipation like that's part of it is is creating that like something's coming in a good communicator hopefully when you're saying something you're going to.

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Andy Miller III: kind of piece out something that's coming later like you want people to hang in there you're not going to want to miss this.

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Andy Miller III: Because I got some great information.

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Andy Miller III: But there's you are aware of the future it's like it's a vision, but I like to I like thinking of leadership as anticipation.

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Andy Miller III: And a prelude, as you say, to momentum.

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Dan Reiland: Correct and and but there's there's a difference, though.

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Dan Reiland: you're a very authentic guy, but there is a difference between hype.

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Dan Reiland: and hope.

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Dan Reiland: And so.

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Dan Reiland: People smell it in a second if you're up there kind of hyping something the leaders who don't really believe it leaders don't really anticipate it, they have to hype it.

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Dan Reiland: Because they they don't know what else to do, but when you see it when you anticipate it when you census coming you can you don't you can't predict the future, but you sense it.

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Dan Reiland: You know, it comes out as hope not hype.

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Dan Reiland: there's a.

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Andy Miller III: big difference well I probably am guilty of hyping.

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Andy Miller III: Oh, I think I think it's probably I mean maybe not right now in this moment but maybe because it's like leaning into an uncertainty like i'm not like you said.

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Andy Miller III: Is this going to work I don't know so I sometimes I feel like i've got to hype it, you know, I have a cynical side to me, even though i'm a very.

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Andy Miller III: positive person like I i'll doubt rather something's going to work, I think, like asking those good questions are there, but but I like this idea of trying to have hope but they'll hope probably is connected to some reality to that.

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Dan Reiland: You know.

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Andy Miller III: This is gonna work.

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Dan Reiland: And it's like we're talking about you know, are you have you been preparing have you been working on the strategy and we got the people you know and.

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Dan Reiland: But, but what what we know, though, is it doesn't have to work.

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Dan Reiland: But there's a sense of belief, whether you know, obviously there's a faith in God belief in God and he's in it with us, and he fills the gap he does what we can't do.

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Dan Reiland: that's obviously a big part of the anticipation, but there's there's part that the leader has to own support that I have to own that.

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Dan Reiland: That that campus pastor of the senior pastor or the small group leader volunteer the small group leader volunteer in a home has to anticipate this is going to be good, because if she doesn't or he doesn't know what it's not going to be good.

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Andy Miller III: yeah sure.

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Andy Miller III: So if you live in the uncertainty, then that oh i'm not sure is going to be if it's going to work out well then you're you might not be actually taking the action steps that you need to be able to get to the place of anticipation.

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Dan Reiland: that's right that's right now let's one important thing for those listening in with us is that doesn't mean that's all going to happen without problems.

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Dan Reiland: When you study the New Testament church the Book of acts, the first i'm going through it again and again.

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Dan Reiland: First, nine chapters it's progress problem progress progress progress progress progress but that's just the way it goes so.

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Dan Reiland: That the anticipation is seeing it and believing it doesn't mean you're not going to have problems but that's what leaders do we make progress, we saw problems we help people we make progress, we solve problems we help people and that just never stops.

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Andy Miller III: wow yeah that's really helpful, you also talk news related The second point is about peace over anxiety, so this is how I would care and you talk about real clear practices that people should put in place, what are some things that people can do to increase their peace.

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yeah.

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Dan Reiland: And, and you, let me say that anxiety is a really big thing today, when we have you know prayer at the older and stuff the number one thing by far that people will say, you know how can we pray for you is anxiety there's just.

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Dan Reiland: assets, you name it it's there's anxieties.

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Dan Reiland: And it's a common thing and leaders now i'm not referring in this case to that.

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Dan Reiland: Clinical can't function debilitating i'm just talking about my non medical just pastor here what I call low grade anxiousness Okay, and on a busy day you don't even notice it but but a low grade anxiousness is when you when you're quiet and alone with it with your thoughts.

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Dan Reiland: You don't sense a soul level peace.

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Dan Reiland: hmm and that's pervasive amongst leaders now again not this I can't function but just this kind of your guts not quite at peace and the the remedy.

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Dan Reiland: begins to peace, the remedy to peace begins with slowing down on a on a in a regular rhythm to sense god's presence and power and I don't know about you, but I have to admit it's it's hard for me to slow down.

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Dan Reiland: And remember, we were talking about before you know the pace and the presser well pace in pressure don't invite you to slow down, they don't.

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Dan Reiland: yeah they invite you to speed up and I think you have to go slower to go faster.

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Dan Reiland: And so, if you want to overcome anxiety and gain peace we've got to have those rhythms in our walk with God our prayer life or.

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Dan Reiland: A Sabbath are and i'm not the hardcore guy you know put your iPhone in a drawer and shut it for four day i'm not that at all, but I do think there are healthy rhythms to slow down.

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Andy Miller III: yeah it's interesting one thing we require students to do here, particular spiritual formation classes is.

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Andy Miller III: In they think it's absolutely crazy, though, we require them to have an hour long quiet time rare or in Bible study not not a devotional book, not all this extra stuff just like your Bible the journaling pray pray a resource to help you pray.

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Andy Miller III: And it's amazing when we start now some people like i'm not coming in wps now but i'm telling you this is the thing we hear from pastor so office they're not pursuing practices that produce peace.

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Andy Miller III: A lot of peace in there, I sound like a preacher so nevertheless like this is one of the challenges that can come is like people will will they'll come in kicking and screaming with that requirement for that particular class.

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Andy Miller III: But that is the number one thing that people talk about being a benefit, even after like their whole seminary career.

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Andy Miller III: is working through a time where they had to spend in an hour a day, and what that did we tell much it helped them in so many other areas as well, and everybody's busy, and they got it so often people say.

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Andy Miller III: Oh, how are you doing oh i'm busy i'm busy well let's just like hold back this is the world that we're in and particularly church world is we're approaching the fall, we need I love what you're saying, like in order to go faster we have to slow down might seem like a contradiction.

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Dan Reiland: Does but it's a and even at my age and stage.

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Dan Reiland: god's given me a lot of energy and a lot of opportunities and stuff and I but i'm still working on it like like i'm you know my centering my kind of course centering is every day's exercising prayer.

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Dan Reiland: And and but i'm always working on it, because my schedule like ours is complex and always moving as i'm always trying to put the right things at the right time and sometimes I try to put exercise out here and.

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Dan Reiland: Well, I need to get out and run do my run what before it gets really hot here in Atlanta, but then, but then my prayer comes after the run.

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Dan Reiland: and

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Dan Reiland: he's pushing me and pushing and pushing me and I don't think this is an illegal mystic thing i'm not scripting anybody.

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Dan Reiland: Right to it to a thing, but, for me, he was pushing me to say, I want you to have your prayer first.

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Dan Reiland: And, and so.

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Dan Reiland: And then, when when I do it that mean I love praying I got a cool prayer room in my basement but sometimes goddess moves us even decades in to new levels and new places and all the way to the time plate, where he actually wants it in a certain order.

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Dan Reiland: I wouldn't put that on anybody because I.

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Dan Reiland: Fair you know what i'm saying, but I think what put the plan, I am saying is always be open to the Holy spirit's prompting because it might be wanting to nudge you in a different way for a specific reason is going to be for your benefit.

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Andy Miller III: Right.

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Andy Miller III: I love it, so the.

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Andy Miller III: third thing he talked about is being connected over being distant, so I imagine, I mean you lead leaders and I imagine you've seen some people who become distant.

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Andy Miller III: And so what is the danger.

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Andy Miller III: of being distant.

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Dan Reiland: Well, and the great danger of being distant ultimately is isolation, because it's very easy for us to be around people all the time, but destiny it's very easy for us to be.

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Dan Reiland: busy and and and in meetings but because again pace and pressure, all that kind of stuff cultural things cancel culture, all the things that leaders face it's very easy to pull back out of a self protection mechanism it's very humans and it's not bad it's that same it's just human.

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Dan Reiland: yeah and so mentally and emotionally we pull back out a protective kinds of things and that actually begins to engender isolation, when we are actually meant to be in community.

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Dan Reiland: Right, whether they're you know your inner core or your mentors or your prayer partners or whatever your community is.

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Dan Reiland: But and it's not a mystery it's not a mystical thing you can you can assess.

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Dan Reiland: Your level of connectedness pretty easily from your experience of things like closest are you close to people is intimacy meaning, are you do, you have honest conversations, or is there, trust is there a laughter is their productivity it's not hard to know if you're connected yeah.

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Andy Miller III: yeah yeah it's it should be an obvious thing like what if you're in that place where you're isolating yourself and you're saying like as you approach, the fall if that's where you are it's going to lead to this inner trouble that's going to result in less effectiveness, when you say.

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Dan Reiland: yeah less effectiveness you feel more distant and and while you might feel safe by feeling more distant you won't be more effective and actually end up even.

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Dan Reiland: pulling back to more of a Defense and, of course, you can't win the battle in Defense you have to move forward with offensive actually lead.

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Dan Reiland: But there's a you know there's some practical ways to think about it, look at it, as you think about you know, am I close, am I connected with who's that girl my garden friends where's my accountability, whatever word, you want to use Who are they.

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Dan Reiland: And there's another thing you can do.

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Dan Reiland: If there's if there's any place you sense that's broken like a relationship that you know, are not broken, but it could use some repair.

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Dan Reiland: A relationship, you know, should be closed, it should be high trust it should be laughter it should be fun, it should be, you know and it's not go have that conversation.

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Dan Reiland: um don't go into the fall go do it this week is there a relationship somewhere, maybe on your lead team or in your small group or in your family don't don't make it over well main list of things to do what's the one relationship i'll bet if you and I are having a cup of coffee.

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Dan Reiland: To to those who are listening to with us today what's the one relationship that needs your attention.

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Dan Reiland: Sometimes one relations you go have that conversation can be a breakthrough to connectedness with many people, because that one is blocking it's blocking it's creating distance that sort of leaks into your other relationships.

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Andy Miller III: yeah he can leak into so many areas like when you get into that and, like what is it leaking into like you, your it gets.

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Andy Miller III: leaks into the service that you're trying to fight for for church leaders, you know, trying to implement fall programs small groups weeknight activities Bible studies, whatever it is well, then I My guess is that when you allow these distant relationships to not be like.

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Andy Miller III: Like some have some healing in them or connectedness that egg exasperate the problem, because then you have all these programs, on top of you that aren't going to be able to happen.

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Dan Reiland: Correct correct.

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Andy Miller III: into the other thing is interesting and you brought up the kind of physical fitness earlier but I, and when I saw this point, I didn't quite see this coming I was, I was interesting what you say you say you want to be focused and energized.

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Andy Miller III: Over being distracted and then you connect that to like being in good physical shape so i'm curious like a little bit I like I wanted to drill down a little bit more on this subject.

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Dan Reiland: yeah Is this a big topic now I should say up front and use that as one example, the physical realm.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, one example of being distracted meaning and in a couple of ways, my particular story that I had in that post we don't.

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Dan Reiland: yeah i'm happy to help, and that was from an injury why.

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Dan Reiland: couldn't run anymore right can run, which is like for me it's a major problem or pain, you know pain is always a distraction, but but.

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Dan Reiland: If we if we could look at the physical reality as a point that's important for all of us as something bigger than just one illustration, because for.

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Dan Reiland: Other people their distraction might be very different than the physical realm but just for a minute, because you brought it up and it's a good it's a good topic.

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Dan Reiland: Absolutely be out of out of shape or poor health or low energy absolutely affects your leadership it's kind of like kind of like you're kind of in the same way that your physical energy impacts your ability to engage with your family when you get home with from a long day at work.

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Dan Reiland: yeah if there's nothing left because you're just out of gas.

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Dan Reiland: Then you haven't saved energy for the people you love the most.

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Dan Reiland: Right and and I just believe this so strongly I don't want to preach it because I don't want to overdo it, but your physical condition sets the level of your vitality to engage your leadership fully and so.

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Dan Reiland: Sometimes, sometimes for for my buddies and people colleagues, you know when they're maybe not into the physical exercise and stuff.

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Dan Reiland: I just try to encourage nobody wants to lecture and nobody wants to tell him don't don't tell me how to eat don't tell me what to do, but when it comes up and someone is kind of not doing well here, I always try to encourage them and i'll say something like you know.

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Dan Reiland: If you'll just go for a vigorous walk three or four times a week.

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Dan Reiland: yeah that'll change your life if you just started there.

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Dan Reiland: Or you know, and I don't tell people how to eat but there's little things that we all know that if you just practiced one or two to change the diet.

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Dan Reiland: The reason I even bring that up is because where you started your physical vitality actually can increase your levels of productivity that joy, you have in your life so many things, and you can start simple go for a walk.

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Andy Miller III: yeah sure it is a part of having a focus and energy is like being able to have those plays, but the corollary to that the opposite is being distracted distracted.

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Andy Miller III: So what what are some of the ways that you see church leaders become distracted.

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Andy Miller III: But what are some of the debate that the things that you think are getting in the way when you see this happening and leaders life.

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Andy Miller III: What are some of those things you see.

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Dan Reiland: Well, I think, I think.

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Dan Reiland: Actually kind of leads us into the last one.

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Dan Reiland: yeah I think I think.

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Dan Reiland: If we go really big picture 30,000 feet, they almost get lost it don't know they're calling.

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Dan Reiland: When you don't know your calling and your values it's hard to determine your passion.

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Dan Reiland: When you don't know your passion is hard to learn to run in the lanes that you're gifted to run in.

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Dan Reiland: And so, then you're you're just you're just distracted because you know what are the priorities, how do I, how do I line things up and.

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Dan Reiland: And then I think kind of all the way down to the bottom of that is kind of your basic daily disciplines.

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Dan Reiland: I mean I I know for me boy i've got screens everywhere, my phone and my laptop and ipads and things are pinging at me all day long and that's fun because they're easy and they're easy because I have no responsibility for them.

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Dan Reiland: Nice.

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Dan Reiland: We all migrate to what's fun and easy and email, and like I don't have to do any of it but it's kind of fun and it's easy I don't have to think I can just answer these things I feel like i'm productive.

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Andy Miller III: Oh man.

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Dan Reiland: But those were just distractions.

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Dan Reiland: Interesting yeah those are distracted the real stuff you know at 20% to the real stuff pick it and stick it and then do your email and do the fun stuff later.

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Andy Miller III: yeah interest in in this case connect like you said to the last point that we want to be organized over scattered right.

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Andy Miller III: And again, you said, like you said, we need to you know go faster by going slower, but here, you say we need to start by stopping.

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let's.

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Dan Reiland: start by stopping means stop the crazy, you know stop stop by eliminating the things you don't have to do now i'm preaching to myself here.

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Dan Reiland: But but but stop by stop by start by eliminating the things you don't have to do and work on the critical thing is that that your team needs you to do.

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Dan Reiland: That list is not near as big as we think it is.

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Dan Reiland: hmm and and but then it gets here this go back to interior when we started it's learning how to say no to the right things at the right time.

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Dan Reiland: But a lot of us is just I still do I have trouble saying no.

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Dan Reiland: um and so what's really important my mentors and coaches, I say Dan, why do you have trouble saying no.

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Dan Reiland: And so we'll talk about that, so I would challenge you if you have trouble saying know why.

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Dan Reiland: What are the things that prevent you from saying no that's a really good question you are please people this that what you know, whatever it is socially acceptance, you know, but what prevents you from saying no now nearly saying no isn't the goal.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, because they get messages Defense merely say no that's not the goal saying no is the vehicle by which you learn to say yes to the right things.

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Dan Reiland: amen that's the real goal is to say yes to the right things, but you can't do everything if another a couple of US knuckleheads out here who try.

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Dan Reiland: And yeah you can't, and so the art of saying no is about the ability to say yes at the right times.

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Andy Miller III: awesome it's like trying to find those those things that are most important where our time can be given and that's like you want your family to be there, but there are certain thing I mean I feel like this lesson Dan is something i'm like.

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Andy Miller III: Never i'm always learning like what are those things that I don't have to do like like you said I can get in and I can email all day long and be productive I feel like i'm being productive but did I have to send all those emails.

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Dan Reiland: Right right and and yeah because they're kind of fun and easy you're helping somebody or answering a question and it's all good stuff, but is it what you need to do.

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Dan Reiland: And that's kind of learning learning to kind of zero in on that and it's a lifetime job I know there's a book, I read a couple years ago now, I don't remember it's so good, I don't know if you've read it, and do you do you love it if you haven't it's called a central ISM.

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Dan Reiland: Okay.

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Andy Miller III: No, I haven't heard of it.

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Dan Reiland: Oh it's so good, you got to get it essentially isn't by Greg mcewen.

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Dan Reiland: Okay interest kind of a white cover with a funky little squirrely thing on the front, you know scrolling.

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Dan Reiland: But surely.

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Dan Reiland: it's a great book that helps us zero in on what is it that's essential for you to do there's there's another book, I often partner to it for with it when i'm coaching leaders, as called deep work by cal Newport.

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Andy Miller III: Okay, this sounds familiar yeah yeah.

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Dan Reiland: And then that's not a snack of a book that's a weighty book, but the two of them you'd love it for sure the two of them paired together.

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Dan Reiland: yeah nominal phenomenal.

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Andy Miller III: Interesting i've generally when i've done this well.

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Andy Miller III: i've been thankful.

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Dan Reiland: For it.

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Andy Miller III: Like it's I can look back and I can see not just achievements but effectiveness in ministry, because I stopped.

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Andy Miller III: Both of the books that I published came at a time where is a busy time I was in the middle of.

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Andy Miller III: To capital campaigns for each book, but I was able to take some time say you know, I do have some really great staff who are handling all these details I would.

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Andy Miller III: it'd be easy for me to step in and manage them and make sure I know all these things are happening with contractors in these type of pieces, but I worked hard to get this staff member and they're trained they're capable they don't need me.

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Andy Miller III: i'm going to work on this project, and I remember the first time I really sat down to do that or It took some time away from the office, I felt so guilty, but then I realized things are going with.

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Andy Miller III: Like the product, the world still going on and i'm doing this thing that i'm feel a calling to do.

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Andy Miller III: That will increase the opportunities, like the my experience had been to be effective and to serve other people, so I just kept the keep reminding myself of that that it's okay to say no, in order to say bigger yeses.

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Dan Reiland: No, no.

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Andy Miller III: Okay, you have a new book coming out to.

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Dan Reiland: I do, I do came up this last spring.

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Andy Miller III: Okay, oh it's already come out and forgive me for not knowing about it tell me tell that's.

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Okay.

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Dan Reiland: it's it's a little bit different approach, you know my last book confident leader, which i've just been pleased with and.

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Dan Reiland: I think very helpful to a lot of leaders, but this is my first devotional.

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Dan Reiland: And maybe my last day was a lot more work than I thought.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, but the title of this devotional is leadership alone isn't enough, and then the subtitle 40 devotions to strengthen your soul.

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and

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Dan Reiland: It was a delight to write a lot of work but i'm just pleased with what it's doing, because in some ways that title of the message leadership alone, I mean there's steps important.

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Dan Reiland: Yes, it's critical but alone is not enough in our walk with God that feeling of the Holy Spirit guides wisdom there's just there's 40 different you know devotion is in there and.

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Dan Reiland: it's just something that was on my heart that needed to be written what's unique about it.

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Dan Reiland: Is I don't think the world needs another devotion devotional it's certainly not by me.

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Dan Reiland: handle poser you know I know Max the Cato.

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Dan Reiland: But this the uniqueness is it's written two leaders it's written specifically for leaders, and so there I did kind of a hard target search, I found about three.

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Dan Reiland: have written to leaders, so I thought all right let's go do this so thanks for letting me tell you about it.

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Andy Miller III: yeah so um do you see people using that the idea is like in a team meeting or just in their own private devotional life.

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Dan Reiland: Both actually I actually write out that's a great question I actually brought up right after the introduction.

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Dan Reiland: The best methods and I said, for all of you, you know highly caffeinated leaders.

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Dan Reiland: Will you couldn't imagine doing less than a devotion a day, well then do it in 40 days.

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Dan Reiland: But it's.

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Dan Reiland: actually designed for like 40 weeks, where you just do one a week and I don't mean do it for seven days use other devotional things and other things you want, but maybe hit it a couple three times during the week, so you can soak on it.

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Dan Reiland: And then the third one, is a lot of people are doing it this way is they're taking like one leader or take two or three leaders through it and they do one a week.

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Dan Reiland: yeah there was one group.

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Dan Reiland: They meet once a month, and they do several devotions together.

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Dan Reiland: So all kinds of.

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Dan Reiland: Ways you can use it, I would say, take a look at it see what works for you.

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Andy Miller III: yeah I it's interesting one of the things I think is a weakness of the leadership genre, so to speak, is that it's you know.

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Andy Miller III: it's sometimes hard to distinguish it from general self help a corporate leadership coming up, and for good reason there's things we need to learn from the corporate world there's.

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Andy Miller III: Good things we can learn from self help type of things like motivational talks in general, but sometimes it's like okay I, I find it be kind of theologically light or or or.

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Andy Miller III: or spiritual formation light like I so i'm glad to see like something kind of entering into this conversation from that perspective.

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Dan Reiland: yeah that's great.

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Andy Miller III: So okay anything else you're working on because coming down the Pike me.

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Dan Reiland: Oh, I mean i'm always writing the next thing and working on the next thing, but this this book that there's a couple of new options that i'm working on for publishing not quite ready for you know launching out there.

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Dan Reiland: But I am he said what's new it's kind of like.

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Dan Reiland: Because of this succession transition or transition succession.

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Dan Reiland: yeah I am able to now give a little more time to my coaching and consulting.

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Dan Reiland: yeah so I had this young cool guy you know when it comes to tech, I have to you have young cool guys.

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Dan Reiland: and design websites and do all that so a new website will be coming out soon to kind of make my blog.

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Dan Reiland: A little more young and clean and clear and kind of you know, to serve more people and there'll be opportunities until the well a few opportunities for.

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Dan Reiland: Some more executive coaching and consulting so i'm looking forward to that still very, very busy here at toe stone and I love it here but that's what's coming down for me in the fall.

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Andy Miller III: Oh, I love it, so we have one of the things I always ask and this podcast called morea story, and what I want to do is go deeper into a particular subject.

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Andy Miller III: That you know somebody has written on and get beyond just a kind of one or two lines and we've done that here, but it's also a theological reason I do it because.

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Andy Miller III: there's more to the story than just getting your sins forgiven there's like there's a process of sanctification that we entered into.

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Andy Miller III: And I like to emphasize that, as a reality it's available for for Christians, nevertheless, like I also like to ask this question everybody So is there, more to the story of Dan or island and typically told Is there something you like to do or.

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Andy Miller III: Something that would give us a little more clues of who you are.

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Dan Reiland: Oh, my that's a fun better fun thing not often asked.

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Dan Reiland: Two things come to mind.

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Andy Miller III: Okay.

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Dan Reiland: All right, real quick.

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Dan Reiland: I rarely tell this I don't know that.

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Many.

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Dan Reiland: But I was in between my undergraduate work and seminary I was a private investigator.

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Dan Reiland: Really, yes, and so, not a long time, a year or so, but my undergrad work was criminal justice, administration.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, and so I did everything I studied in the field everything from police science to probation and parole pre law all kinds of stuff I was know that works, but I need a job, so I became a private investigator.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, which I should have known from the writing on the wall, all my.

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Dan Reiland: Colleagues, were security, you know part time jobs in college, they were working security jobs or whatever and i'm in the church all the time, you know young youth groups or whatever.

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Dan Reiland: And so, God had a call on my life to to seminary and and off, I went but So yes, that was.

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Dan Reiland: That was an interesting thing got real honestly i'll tell you this, I think that i'd have been a very naive young pastor had gotten up put me out there, and let me see what I saw and lived I lived and do what I did for about a year or so.

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Dan Reiland: between school and seminary.

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Dan Reiland: So there's one thing not many people know.

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Andy Miller III: Okay, before you go I The second thing.

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Andy Miller III: That is.

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Andy Miller III: So interesting, so it like I like how you highlight it was a good prelude to ministry, because I say I was really thankful that I had a couple people who spent some time in prison, and thanks to the Salvation Army.

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Andy Miller III: So serving who told me a little bit of how the world works that was I understand how that goes but it's also interesting to this before seminary kind of orient you before now tell us where you went to school, I know you went to asbury seminary first presented where'd you go to undergrad.

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Dan Reiland: San Diego State University.

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Andy Miller III: Okay interesting.

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Dan Reiland: yeah and then I went to asbury yeah.

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Dan Reiland: And then I did my demon at fuller.

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Andy Miller III: Okay interesting.

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Andy Miller III: yeah OK so number two you have.

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Dan Reiland: This is just fun and light, I have had a love affair, with guitars since I was 12 years old.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, and i'm not very good player truly but I love it I have fun with it, I have a.

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Dan Reiland: Pretty pretty cool guitar collection, so much so that I get so many questions about it, we finally had them all photographed and put on my blog site.

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Dan Reiland: And and they're all described well, not all of them are there, but they're all they're there, and on the new website that it'll be a really cool carousel that people can see most people don't care, but guitar people really care.

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Dan Reiland: gotcha and they camp there, because they just want to check them out so that's my fun I love it and, as sometimes Nice, with all the work we do to share a little bit of the fun.

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Andy Miller III: yeah sure what what's the one that people like the most maybe not your favorite but which one did people talk to you about which guitar.

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Dan Reiland: Oh that's hard to you know you almost have to pick acoustic or electric.

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acoustic.

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Dan Reiland: On the acoustic.

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Andy Miller III: yeah it's good to go.

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Dan Reiland: On the acoustic side let's do that one, I am very blessed one of my closest longtime friends is Bob Taylor.

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Dan Reiland: And Bob and Cindy and pain, I have traveled together and.

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Dan Reiland: he's obviously the owner, founder of Taylor guitars.

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Dan Reiland: So we built three custom tailors.

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Dan Reiland: Oh wow I.

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Dan Reiland: didn't build them he did you know so there's some three taylor's that are really pretty extraordinary one of the kinds.

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Dan Reiland: they're special and.

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Andy Miller III: How did you get to know him was he in San Diego or or Atlanta.

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Dan Reiland: Great question, he was on the board at skyline.

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Dan Reiland: Okay, and a board member there when I was xp and he's just a brilliant generous smart accomplished businessman that.

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Dan Reiland: wanted to put good wood guitars and young people's hands to learn how to play and now as he's in succession as well.

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Dan Reiland: he's doing forestry around the world he's just doing all kinds of new dressing, just so there'll be would for guitars for our next generation, so they can actually have real instruments to play yeah.

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Andy Miller III: Interesting see i'm so glad to ask this question I learned these types of things.

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Andy Miller III: that's good Dan Thank you so much for your time.

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Andy Miller III: appreciate the way that you blog and write and help leaders think about who they need to be and how they can lead better and also for the work that's happening at 12 seven, which is such a model.

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Andy Miller III: For so many of us who are serving a church, it means so much to us thanks for taking time to come to this podcast.

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Dan Reiland: My pleasure, thank you for inviting me, and I hope it's helpful.

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Andy Miller III: Yes, it is.