Confronting Woke Trends in Church and Society with Robinson

Fr Calvin Robinson has boldly challenged woke trends in church and society. He is an Anglican Deacon in the GAFCON affiliated Free Church of England, otherwise called the Reformed Episcopal Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (REC), and currently serves Christ Church Harlesden. I was encouraged by his testimony and the fierce way he proclaims the ‘faith once for all delivered to the saints.’

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Transcript

Welcome to the more. To this story. Podcast I'm so glad that you have come along. We have a great show today, and maybe somebody that you have seen online. It's a real honor to talk to him, and I'll introduce him here in just a second. But I want you to know. This podcast. Is brought to you by Wesley Biblical Seminary, where we are developing trusted leaders for faithful churches. In this exciting point in our history where we have more students than we've ever had. We've had a 600%

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Andy Miller III: enrollment increase in the last 5 years. We have this new sense of like excitement as a global Methodist church is coming along and working with a course of study program at them. We have bachelor's master's doctoral degrees we would love for you to check us out@wbs.edu.

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Andy Miller III: Secondly, I'm thankful to my friend Bill Roberts, who's a financial planner who helped support this podcast by helping me get kind of like some of the materials, I need to make it happen. And he's a financial planner who helps people think about their retirement. A lot of people who are a ministry aren't thinking about their retirement. And Bill somebody who can help you with that. So I encourage you to check him out at William H. roberts.com. Also, there's several things coming from

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Andy Miller III: my website, Andy Miller, the third com. That's Andy Miller. iii.com. I have a 45 min teaching that's designed for preachers. It's it's a tool called 5 steps to deeper teaching and preaching. Now I know that sounds like a salesy type of thing in and itself, but the idea behind it

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is to be able help. Preachers have tools to go deeper in their exegetical preparation, with the aim of thinking along that way, how you can creatively present to people God's called you to serve. So it's a 45 min video teaching. And then an 8 page. Pdf document that I think you could find helpful. So you can get that if you sign up for my email list at Andy Miller, third.com. I also have some courses there, one on the afterlife, one

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Andy Miller III: on the book of Jude. These are video courses you could use in a small group, a Sunday school class, your own personal study. So I'd love for you to check those things out in addition to about 200 podcast interviews that we've had in the past, really thankful for folks who come alongside and who regularly follow the things coming from the mortise story podcast if you wouldn't mind subscribing liking, whatever you have to do, making comments that those are type of things that helps us

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Andy Miller III: get to more people. And we're thankful for the opportunity to be able serve you people who are listening to this, podcast all right. I am so glad to welcome into the podcast deacon. I'm making sure I've that right, Deacon Calvin Robinson, Calvin. Welcome to the podcast Hello. Thank you for having me on, how are you?

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Andy Miller III: I'm doing very well. Thanks for asking. It's a real honor to speak with you. I've I hear, at Wesley Biblical Seminary. We all had this moment. I don't know. 8, 10 months ago, where all of a sudden there was this commotion down the hallway, and I'm like what's going on in in, everybody. Say, Come here, come here, come here. You've got to see this.

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Andy Miller III: And so we actually got around our President's computer. And you were on the screen, Calvin, and it was we saw your Oxford Union debate and I didn't properly introduce you, but you serve as a in the Anglican Free Church in England. But but this was a unique moment. As you stood up in a place where you had studied and pre defended the Biblical view of marriage. And so we have from

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Andy Miller III: and Wesley Biblical scenery. We have become Calvin Robinson fans if there's such a thing over the last

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Andy Miller III: last several months. So thank thank you so much for the public way that you have stood up for the gospel and the truth of the Church. This has been an encouragement to us, and I just wanted to take some time to hear a little bit of your story, and I love to talk about that debate, too, and what was behind some of that. So tell us about yourself, Calvin, like, how did people who are watching us on Youtube can see that you have a clerical caller you serve in an Anglican context. But I'd love to hear how you got there.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Yeah, okay. First of all, I like the comment you said about publicly standing up for the truth, because there is no way to privately stand up for the truth. We should all be publicly standing up for the truth. Otherwise we're not standing up for the truth at all. So I think that's important to put that out there.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: It's always the question II dislike the most. I don't like talking about myself too much, but I'll give you a brief synopsis born and raised in the Midlands. So for an an American audience that Sherwood Forest, that Robin Hood country?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: You know we grew up around the the major Oak. I had my

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Fr Calvin Robinson: pretend bow and arrow and my my green felt hat.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Little John was right beside you. No, I didn't know he. He died long ago, unfortunately. But okay, I was definitely in that area and

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Fr Calvin Robinson: nominally Christian, as everyone in England used to be. You know, everyone's everyone was Church of England at 1 point

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Fr Calvin Robinson: which meant, we went to church with school Atista Christmas.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: but not every Sunday.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: but I always felt like I had a relationship with God. I always knew there was a God, and I always felt that my prayers were answered. So my life has been a journey

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Fr Calvin Robinson: from knowing God to discovering the persons of God.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And I don't think I really got to know Jesus Christ in the Person or the Holy Spirit until my early 20 s.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And th that was, you know. Obviously, that's a long journey to go on. But once I had discovered him.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: that was the start of the calling, the start of my vacation. The moment I became a Christian I realized that everything in my life had to be centered around the Holy Eucharist, and the moment we are closest with Christ.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And so that's what. Why I I discerned holy orders, and the Church

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Fr Calvin Robinson: affirmed my calling, and that led me to where I am now.

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Andy Miller III: So this was in your twenties, so you must have had some type of career or something going on before you had this converting moment. I don't know if it'd be like a conversion moment, but definitely like a move and growth and sanctification in that time. Alright! Or how do you think at that moment? When specific moment? Yeah, it was the mess.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: It just opened my eyes in a way that I could see what I hadn't been seeing before, and I could hear what I was hadn't heard before. And just I encountered Christ through

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the the body and blood of him, and that's why I truly affirm that

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian faith, and that's why I sent my life round it, and try and try to at least send my life around it.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So there was definitely a moment. Yes, and you know, as an early Christian, I didn't understand

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the theology or the liturgy, but II knew that I met the person. Yeah.

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Andy Miller III: this is why John Wesley thought of as a converting ordinance or converting grace like there is something that happens. Let's go with the word sacrament. Yeah. Sacrament. There you go. Amen. Amen. Well, I've actually made moves in the direction

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Andy Miller III: because of growing up in a tradition in the Salvation Army that William Booth was the founder of the savage army in the nineteenth century was moving against what he saw as like dead institutionalism. And he just

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Andy Miller III: almost, you might say, that migrate threw the baby out with the bathwater, and so the savage army is like the Quakers and non practicing sacramental domination. And I just think like hearing your story.

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Andy Miller III: And I'm I'm fine to use the word sacrament in in that moment, like when this happens.

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Andy Miller III: you missed opportunities for somebody like, if you're not practicing the Eucharist and not having opportunities for those moments where God is. Grace has throughout church history come and made himself so present. We're missing that you're like and missing this. And so it is. It's beautiful to hear that, like as a moment

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Fr Calvin Robinson: that really leads somebody into a relationship with Jesus cause. That's what it is. Yeah. And it's fascinating to me. And you know II love the Salvation Army. Did it do a lot of good, charitable work, especially in England. But I don't understand how any Church can be without the sacrament, where Church of the Faith. So we're Church of the Word and the Sacrament together. That is what our faith is. So it's. It's sad to me that so many people who think of themselves as Christians don't have access to the sacraments.

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Andy Miller III: Yeah, no, it is sad to me, too, and this is part of I mean, it wasn't the full reason why I left the savage army, but it was part of it was that there there was just missing this beautiful moment that people can use access. What God wants to do in their life, and

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Andy Miller III: part of it is like, this is, this is where it get in. You're you're exactly right. And William Booth had a high respect. I think he would've thought of himself as a churchman in the kind of Church of England tradition. But he this is why he would say, in those times, we're not a church, so we're not have. We're not

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Andy Miller III: observing the Lord's Supper, and so with that it he just thought, we're in a sense, almost more than a church, because we're the ones who are really taking the gospel to the people. Well, I Calb, I'm curious, since we're talking the part of the Bible where Christ says, Take eat in remembrance of me. Apart from that part. Yeah. Oh, no, I believe me, you're not. Gonna you're not gonna get any pushback from me. But I grew up pushing back against those arguments, or you know this, the great Commission, like it, makes it hard for somebody to say that we take the Scripture as authoritative as in Aaron.

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Andy Miller III: if we're not really Gonna listen to God's clear words through Scripture regarding the Sacraments.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: What's your view? I mean, what's your sense of the Salvation Army in the Uk. Now I have. I have, you know, friends who are there, and I know some. But do you have? Do you? Have you? And you mentioned a good, charitable worker with I'm thankful for that. But do you see them as a church in your context? No, I wouldn't really describe them as a church, but II like what they do in that. They have

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Fr Calvin Robinson: places where people who can't afford furniture can go and get furniture for cheap, if not free. They do. I know they do tea and toast for very cheap, and which is is like a community center, if anything. And of course they play instruments at Christmas in the in the town square. So it reminds people of Christ, even if it's not a church itself.

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Andy Miller III: Yeah, yeah, it's helpful. And it's it's nice to hear like a lot of times. There's like an internal system. When you get in those systems, it's easy just to only see it from

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Andy Miller III: that perspective. And so it's nice to hear how another British person might think about the savage army, which is very, you know, has a lot of roots and systems that are based in British culture. Okay, let me jump in here. So with regard to the way that you have been led into ministry. What were you doing? Did you have a career before you responded to holy orders? What did you do?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So firstly, I was in technology university. So II did development programming.

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And then I moved from that into teaching.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Now, this was this, this aligned with my calling. So what I didn't realize at the time was that teaching was the start of my vacation, and obviously teaching is part of the priestly ministry, but not the whole of it.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: so it was great experience, but also it was a reminder that

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the work we do is is well. It is in the great Commission. You know schools are a prime example of that in that

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Fr Calvin Robinson: we have such utilitarian approach to education in the West at the moment, and I always thought, why are we sending people out with great exam results? But we're not sending out great people, in fact, replace that word great with good we should be sending out good people

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into the world, and we should be preparing them, not just for work, but also for the heavenly kingdom to come. I don't think we were doing that.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So so I shifted from technology into teaching. And whilst I shifted into teaching, I found Christ and realized that

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Fr Calvin Robinson: what we were doing in education wasn't

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the fullness of what we should be doing. At some point. I thought, maybe I need to start a school that is truly Christian, because we don't really have many of those in England anymore, even though we started the whole thing off

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and that's what one thing led to another, and then end up going to seminary. And now I'm in parish ministry rather than school ministry, but still is what led me here.

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Andy Miller III: Yeah. So my audience is probably unfamiliar with the ordination process in the Church of England. So can you walk us through that? And and this is where you started to stand up, and I love your emphasis, too, like there is no public representation of the truth unless it is public like. You're you're hiding behind it. But you started to do that, and so maybe walk us through what happened on your ordination journey, and maybe even how that led you to where you're serving now.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Okay? So the ordination

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Fr Calvin Robinson: process is a long, long process of lots of discernment, lots of prayer and lots of bureaucracy. So you know you have conversations with your priest. Eventually they recommend you to local deanery, the local area, and then you go to groups sessions together.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: From there you get recommended to an

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Fr Calvin Robinson: a diocesan kind of director of ordinance.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: a Ddo, or an area director of ordinance, and they give you one to one sessions to kind of tease out of you your calling, and they essentially are responsible for confirming or affirming that calling.

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And then, once that process has been completed, you get sent off to psychiatric evaluations and all kinds of stuff. and then you get sent to

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Fr Calvin Robinson: placements to spend time in different Christian settings with different types of ministry.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and then you have to explore different types of seminary or options. You don't have to go to a seminary these days. Unfortunately, you can just do evening classes, or whatever

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and then eventually you get sent to seminary, and then you do your formation and your training.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and at the end of that you usually get sent out to a parish to be a curate, or an assistant priest, or a you know a deacon. and you spend 3 years, usually as an assistant cure

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Fr Calvin Robinson: one year as a deacon throughout that 3 year process, and then, at the end of that, you get sent off to your own parish to become your own parish priest.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So now I entered that process with the Church of England.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I got to the end of seminary I completed my course in seminary, so I completed my training on my formation, and I was supposed to be sent to a parish as an assistant curate as a as a deacon.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and that's when I came in into trouble with the Church of England, and that they were promoting wokeness that I can abide by.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: We had a difference of opinion on on these things. Not not nothing theological, entirely entirely entirely political and and worldly, really. But I very quickly became clear that

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Fr Calvin Robinson: a there wasn't a place for someone like me, someone who's conservative in politics and theology.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And be that actually, even if there was. I don't know if I'd be comfortable in that place, because it was going to church, for England was becoming

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Fr Calvin Robinson: well apostate, which it has with this whole.

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You know my issue was mostly around race at the time, and how the Church was teaching that we are institutionally racist, which I but him, and disagreed with.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: because I said that individuals, the corpora body kind of removes it from the individual, and that's problematic for whole host reasons. But the Church of England has entered apostasy through this same 6 blessing situation that we're seeing play out before our eyes. So I was liberated from the Church of England actually by leave.

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Andy Miller III: Now, it's interesting. In that period, I remember, I've heard you tell a story about interacting with the Bishop of London, and and you had challenges just even with the recognizing her as the Bishop of London in general, like somebody who'd be in superiority, or director or director of you, whatever you would say. But tell me about like what happened in that meeting like cause. There's this definite claim

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Andy Miller III: that the Church is racist, the Church of England is racist. Isn't this what the Bishop of London said to you in a Yeah, so you're right. I don't recognize Sarah Malala as the Bishop of London, because there is no Bishop of London, because women cannot be pre become priests or bishops. It's it's not in the Bible.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: However. I was going by the Bishop. I was going through the Bishop of Fulham, who is what they call a flying bishop, because the church has provisions for traditionalists, for people who are Catholic in their faith. Who cannot in good conscience receive orders from a woman.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So I was going through him but his. The flying bishops don't really have any jurisdiction. So his boss was the Bishop of London. So I met with her.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and I mean, this is an old story now, but essentially, she just said. Calvin, I can tell you that that the Church of England is institutionally racist, and I said I disagree with that, and I don't like when I hear the Archbishop of Canterbury proclaiming that it's synod with no evidence to back it up just just we are racist. It paints the whole church as racist. It paints all of us as racist, and I think that's wrong. I think there are individuals who are racist. Those individuals need to be held to account.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and you know she turned around, said to me, no, I can tell you. As a white woman the church is racist. And I thought, we're coming from different directions. And I don't see how there's a common ground in this.

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Andy Miller III: Yeah, almost like ontologically, it's challenging. There's a challenge with saying, the church is racist, and what's the what's the challenge with that statement?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Well, of course, if if we're talking about the church big C. We're talking about Christ's body on Earth, and therefore we're calling Christ races. Essentially, I don't. I don't think that being charitable, I don't think that's what she was trying to say. She's blaming the infrastructure. She's blaming the institution, but that's it doesn't work

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Fr Calvin Robinson: because we teach that we are all fallen individuals, and of course institutions are made up of fallen individuals, and those fallen in individual individuals will sin, but when we sin we have to repent, and when we repent, we are, we receive absolution, and we are forgiven. Our Lord forgives us, but we can't be forgiven if we don't, even if we show no contrition. If we don't repent, he teaches us to repent.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So how are we going to repent if we don't recognize our sin? If we say Well, actually, it's not my sin, it's the corporate body's sin. It's the Church's sin. The church is what's racist, not me. That's that's the problem.

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Andy Miller III: Yes. So so this is the issue for you was that it's the individualist type of approach like, you can't say that you can. You can point to the corporate reality, but it's the individual piece that you're not guilty of, like you can't say like, how can I move forward with this? What's what do you suppose they they see

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Andy Miller III: as an act. Is it like have like implicit systemic racism that they feel like we're all guilty of like we're all racist all the time. There's nothing to back it up. So when the Archbishop of Canterbury stands up there, a general other governing body of the Church of England, and says, I apologize because the church is institutionally racist

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Fr Calvin Robinson: with no data spattered out. What they're saying is that we we want to be seen as good people by the world. We want to be seen as nice by the world, and we're going to play by the world's

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Fr Calvin Robinson: games and played by the world's language. And that's what they're doing. They're going along with critical race theory. You know, this is all as a result of black lives matter. And it's all worldly matters that they're focused on

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Fr Calvin Robinson: rather than the the Catholic area of social justice that we learn from the Scriptures of addressing these issues of race from a Christian perspective and teaching instead of teaching. You know.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: all of this stuff is wrapped up in critical race theory, which teaches about whiteness being a problem, and white people are inherently oppressive and and more racist. And it's nothing that you can change about yourself. It's just the way you're born. And again, that's not the Christian faith. The Christian faith is that? Yes, we're born sinners, but we can

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Fr Calvin Robinson: well, through through God's grace we can be helped of that. And Christ died for our sins and offers us well, he redeems us and offers us eternal salvation. That's the message. It's not that you are stuck in sin. It's that actually we are free from sin. If we, if we live a life in Christ, and it's the Church is going backwards by by the well. The Church hierarchy is going backwards by teaching. The opposite.

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Andy Miller III: Yeah. And it's interesting. Of course

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Fr Calvin Robinson: you might be an unsuspecting person to say this right? I imagine that as you've been in situations as a black man. I don't know how you wanna what, how you identify yourself, exactly what, what's best way for me to say that for you. So I'm half black and half white. But this is this is part of the problem as well. So the the Archbishop of Canterbury is white middle class or upper class whatever.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So is the Archbishop of York, so is the Bishop of London 3 most powerful, influential people in the Church of England. Now, if they all say in the Church of England is racist, surely they should all step down and replace themselves with an ethnic minority. Now, I don't believe in affirmative action in that sense, however, if they were going to replace themselves with someone from off from the African Continental something, I probably would get behind it because they'd be much more authorized. Yeah, absolutely. So how does this work, then for you?

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Andy Miller III: Well, look, okay, I want to get back to where you're serving now. But before before you get to that, this is, do you think one of the challenges of critical race theory and its emergence in the Church is the sin of partiality.

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Andy Miller III: Do you feel like? That's what we're dealing with, I mean, what else is, is behind is like finding our identities in external markers beyond who we are in crisis there. And and this is related, of course, not just to critical race theory, but critical theories. So it's no surprise, then, that we have similar things said, related to Lgbtq. Concerns and the like train. So is that what it is? Is this partiality.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: critical theories or the work of the enemy. You you put your, you put your finger on it there, and if we are, our identity is in Christ

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Fr Calvin Robinson: right? We are members of His body. We received, we received that grace through our baptism we become members of His body, and so our identity is rooted in him. Now, the enemy doesn't like that. The enemy wants to disrupt our connection to our Lord

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and to do that.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: He twists things around and says, actually, you know your identity is in Christ, your identity is in you, and it essentially goes all the way back into Genesis. In that you can be your own God. You don't need God. You can be your your own God, too, and that's what we're doing when we're saying, actually, no, I'm I'm looking for my inner self, my true self. Thus I'm on the search for me. Well, we should gonna search for God.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and and that's that's the greatest self exploration for the, for the inner connection to Christ. and so to separate us from Christ. These things focus on your immutable characteristics, focus on your skin color, focus on your sexuality, focus on your gender the things about yourself that you can't change and and really dig down, and then they are the things that make you you

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Fr Calvin Robinson: when the Christians should be saying, no, they're not. They're unimportant. They're irrelevant, actually. What makes you you is is that you're made in the image of God.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and that Christ loves you and died for you, and offers you eternal salvation. If you embrace him, repent of your sins and embrace him.

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Andy Miller III: It's it's interesting, the I I'm studying doing a Phd. At the University of Manchester. I go over for a couple of weeks in summer, and I have some colleagues who come during same period during a residential time, and this person might see this, but they did this very publicly, so I think it makes sense.

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Andy Miller III: He described to me how he's moved away from the the faith tradition that he was raised in. Maybe it's very similar to mine, and then and then embraced all of the things that we've talked about like that we, you know, just for shorthand, could say various woke ideologies. Okay, so if if that's the case. Then the next day I saw that he had a T-shirt on.

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Andy Miller III: and that this T-shirt had a silhouette, and I didn't quite know what it was, and and I asked him about it, and it was

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Andy Miller III: his own silhouette. and what he what he had done on that and below it had his last name. Ology.

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Andy Miller III: and so it said, like it, mine, Miller, it'd be like Miller Ology, and I says, Tell me about your shirt. And he said, well, this is just my, you know, as I've kind of grown. Theologically, he says, this is my new approach.

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Andy Miller III: This is the way I look at the world. And I thought, Look, man, do you see what you replaced yourself with? Like? What? What? You, who you replaced? You took off Theos, you took off God, and you put yourself in there. And now you're wearing a picture of yourself

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Andy Miller III: to describe your. So I mean, this ends up being something that ends up being so self focused where we then are trying to create God in our own image. And I think that that's a part of what is at the heart of some of these challenges of this woke perspective is, it's like my thoughts, my ideas become total reality.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: A 100% that is so sad to hear. But this is it. This is what the work movement is. We, you know, we call it neo Marxism. We call it Communism. It doesn't really matter what it is? Is the enemy trying to disrupt our connection with our Lord, and to do to

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Fr Calvin Robinson: launch an attack on our heavenly Lord. He uses us as pawns, and of course we can never become gods. We're not the same substance with the Father, but we are convinced that we can become gods in our own earthly ways. Whether that's in monetary value or social value, it doesn't matter. This idea of having your own name as an ology is just is. Ha! It's I'm gonna pray for that dude. Yes. Well in in

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Andy Miller III: as we're like kind of like seeing this reliance of on the self as the center. I think that that's where we get problems. I'm interested, like, so you get in this difficult situation where your ordination basically is blocked. So how did you? How'd you come about? I mean, you're ordained. Now I introduce you as deacon, so tell a lot of people don't understand, particularly in American evangelical context.

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Andy Miller III: we. We may actually, what's emerging now is Acna. A lot of us have people who have moved to Acna, the ankling church in North America. But tell us about your your process, and how God provided for you in the midst of this hard time.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Okay, so yeah, that's a good way of putting it kind of always provides so I thought this, was it, okay? So maybe I'm not going to be ordained. Maybe I'm not going to enter ministry, even though I still felt called to it, and the the church had confirmed my calling. I was like, what does this mean?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And bishops from the Acna reached out actually from the Acna, and the Oec reached out and said, Do you know you can still remain Anglican outside of the Church of England, something that I hadn't actually considered. I didn't realize properly. And they taught me about Gaffcon. This global Anglican Futures Conference meet not necessarily meeting, but more of a movement, and there is a small presence of it in the Uk. But of course the Uk has an Established Church, a State Church which has a monopoly on

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Christianity in in this country, so it's not quite the same setup as what we see in America. But I did look at what's going on? American? I thought, this is great. So we've got the Acna saying to to the Episcopal church, what you guys are doing is wrong. You're entering a post that you cannot, you know, ask God to bless, and you cannot consecrate practicing homosexual manners, bishops, and all of this.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: But I thought, okay, so the Aca is is is strong. They are reforging

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Fr Calvin Robinson: or reforming Anglicanism in America. Great and the rac was the was one of the founding provinces of the A/C. And A. And the Rc. Is fantastic, too, you know. Formerly.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: a big are reformed now a small r or re dash formed. I think they would go by now. They, because they found their Catholic roots, which is great to see. Some of my best Anglo Anglo Catholic friends are in the Rec. Some. I'm very.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Let's see what they're doing. But within the Acna, of course, you've got the diocese of Fort Worth, and you've got Sam Waheen as well doing great work. But I thought, This is what they they. This is what can be done. So maybe we need a presence of Anglicanism in England, and we need to remind people that Anglicanism, although it might be synonymous with the Church of England. You know lexicon, it's not factually the same, you know. Anglican started in the Church of England, of course, but that doesn't mean it has a monopoly over Anglicanism.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So I joined the Free Church of England. which is the U. K's version of the Reformed Episcopal Church.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: so the full name is the Free Church of England, otherwise called the Reformed Principal Church of the United Kingdom and Ireland. I think

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Fr Calvin Robinson: not as quite as far along as the REC. In the us so still quite big, R. Reformed in in some ways, which is which is problematic. But at least they're orthodox in in terms of sexuality, race gender, and all of the modern issues that the the Church of England has has fallen on.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So they they were big. They're a lifeboat to me, really, and offered me the Acanol ministry.

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Andy Miller III: Hmm! So how many churches are in that tradition in the

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Fr Calvin Robinson: in England like? So we have. We have a Ga.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Gbe Great Britain in Europe.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And as part of that we've got ace. And Amy. So ace is basically the A/CNA. In the UK.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Amy is like snake belly, low, evangelical. and then we've got the Free Church of England as a Gafka, and so associate as well.

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And that's

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Fr Calvin Robinson: more Prayer Book worship so so vested, and Prayer Book.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: That's the differentiation between those 3. But

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Fr Calvin Robinson: all between all 3 of them are very small. There's there's probably less than a hundred parishes altogether.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So there's a lot of work to be done there.

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Andy Miller III: So so within Gaffcon and all of these different movements within Anglicanism

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Fr Calvin Robinson: do is forgive my ignorance here. Do they still look it within the Anglican Commune? Are they still under the architectural Canterbury? That's good question. So not under Canterbury. No, and I went to Gaffcon the latest one this year. So there's a there's a conference every 5 years, and it happened to be this year, and I went out to Rwanda, to Kigali.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and met with the people there, and the the

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Fr Calvin Robinson: primates there represented 85% of Anglicans all around the world. So the the vast majority of the Anglican communion is part of Gaffcon and the global South, and the and they're very orthodox in their faith, and what they were saying is that Canterbury needs to repent. Canterbury needs to come back into the orthodox Anglican faith, and until they do.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: we no longer recognize as the the Archbishop of country as the first among equals. So the Anglican communion now isn't going to form a new communion is essentially

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Fr Calvin Robinson: it's communicating the Archbishop of Canterbury until the Church of England repents. And they're gonna look in the next 5 years in the lead up to the next conference. They're gonna look for a mechanism to install their own first among equals.

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Andy Miller III: Okay, interesting.

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Andy Miller III: So that that person wouldn't be called the Archbishop of Canterbury, right, but it'd be just some sort of first among equals. Now, Calvin, like some people, might say, people who have, maybe share your theology and political perspective, who are still in the Church of England. And maybe and this is the argument, too, with a a host of denominations

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Andy Miller III: as people have moved

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Andy Miller III: moved away.

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Andy Miller III: And really, you know, this is connected anthropology revelation. I mean, it's full doctrine, the foundation of this. A lot of times. People will say, well, they do

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Andy Miller III: pre disagree on this subject we need, I'd approach.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Sorry it froze up there.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Oh, yeah, I lost you just for a second. What's the last thing you heard me say. I can got the gist of it if people are still in the Cv.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: what's our approach to work together? Or, yeah, that's right. Should we? Shouldn't we just agree to disagree? Yeah, well, we can't agree to disagree in terms of the truth. There is one objective truth. His name is Jesus Christ.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I mean, I

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Fr Calvin Robinson: either we believe in the Scriptures as revealed to us. or we don't by either. We believe in the Christian faith

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Fr Calvin Robinson: as has been handed down to us through generations, or we don't. I just don't see how we can pick and choose

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Fr Calvin Robinson: which bits we believe and say, well, actually, now, in this context, in this time and place, we need to kind of get with the times, and like no, either we are with the world, or we are with Christ.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: we call it both.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So I struggle with that. Yeah.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: You know people in the Church of England. I've got many good friends. You know laity and clergy in the Church of England who are doing good work and are faithful.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and I struggle with the idea that they're minute. They're able to do that within a system that has become apostate.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I don't know if it's possible to reform the Church of England at this point, because

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Fr Calvin Robinson: the hierarchy is captured.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: 99% of the bishops or

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Liberals. and you know I think you can either be a Liberal or you can be a Christian. Wow! The 2 things don't go to. There's 2 different religions. Essentially, yeah.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: is what what is it that makes it apostate? Is it? I mean, cause the Church hasn't. Officially, the churching hasn't changed its articulation of what marriages, but yet the same time they're blessing same-sex unions. So is it? Is it? It's not just a written doctrine, but is it the practice that makes it apostate absolutely, and they will? They will continue to profess that we have not changed our doctrine. But

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Fr Calvin Robinson: there, yeah, there's the letter of the law. There's a spirit of the law, right? It's very disingenuous to say we haven't changed the letter, but we're changing the spirit, and that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to work ways around the law. And as we, that's far a cycle, essentially. But what they're doing is wrong. And they you cannot ask God to bless what he has called abhorrent. It's just ridiculous.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: so to say we are, gonna you know. First of all, they said they wanted to blame to bless same-sex marriages or same sex unions. And then they said, actually, no, we'll bless individuals within the Union, and it's like that's when you start playing tricky games. But now even they've come out, said, Look, we will bless same sex unions, some of which will be sexual in nature. So they've come out with it explicitly, saying they're gonna ask God to bless sodomy because it's not them who does the blessing it's got. Who does the blessing? So it's it's not possible.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And so that's the main reason. Yes, but the Churches of England is beginning this way for long, long time, you know, from the embracing of contraception, no fault, divorce, remarriage of people who are divorced with a living partner. All of these things, the the ordination of women, all of these things were part of the same slippery slope.

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Andy Miller III: Yes, how it's interesting me. I'm so thankful that you have found this avenue of service it.

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Andy Miller III: And could you just tell me a little bit about like the joy that it is to be all function in your calling, in a, in a movement that is aligned with Scripture and tradition.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Yeah, that's a good question. Thank you for that. I've just spent some time in the States. Actually, I always come back rejuvenate. It is re-energizing, spending time with with with orthodox Anglicans, and well, not just Anglicans, but just orthodox Christians in general, and reminding

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Fr Calvin Robinson: each other what it is, what it can be like, and I think all things are relative, so the situation in England is quite dire. So it's nice to go to the States and get a reminder of how it could be. But then I went to Scandinavia recently, where it's even worse than the United Kingdom, because the there is entirely secular. There is no God in there, you know. They didn't have a State Church or anything like that. So that reminded me that actually, it's not as bad in England as it could be.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: But but the joy is that I was liberated. You know

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Fr Calvin Robinson: God permitted the the situation that went on in the Church of England, so that I would be freed from the Church of England, and able to actually get on with my ministry. I mean both my public ministry and my parish ministry. I'm able to just proclaim the Gospel right, I'm able to just

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Fr Calvin Robinson: preach the truth, and I wouldn't have been able to do that in this. In the Church of England. I would have to go to diversity, inclusion, and equality meetings and training events, and I would have been told off every time I said something. You know I've got so many friends who's been told off by their bishops for saying things that are in the Bible, and the the

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and the Bishop will be like, yeah, I know it's the Christian teaching, but it's controversial. It's like, yes, that's why we need to say even more like, if the truth is controversial, it needs to be heard all the more because it means people are outside of the church are forming away from the truth, and our job, as the Church is to bring the truth to the people.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: It's it's also self. Explanatory is is frustrating. But yes, the joy is in the fact that I can get on with my ministry. Thank God for that! And it's like, I imagine, that if I was able to join you this Sunday and attend worship with you.

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Andy Miller III: I might not hear, and maybe I would. I mean as as Scripture leads to it, if that's the passage that you're you're preaching from, but I imagine I wouldn't hear. Derailing against just these political issues or issues within the life of the Church. There's so much more to say, I mean, let's give it so what are you preaching on this Sunday?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: That is a good question, and that is, that's a good point, indeed. Because this is it, I can tell you. I can grab my prayer book and tell you exactly what I'm preaching on, because I don't. You know, when I'm at church I'm not preaching on

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Fr Calvin Robinson: whatever the latest pronouncement from the Cv. Is on things blessings, or whatever silly policy is being full topping by the Conservative government. I'm preaching on what it says right here.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So we've just done twentieth. So we're the gospel of the Gospel according to Saint John 4, 46 to end.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So this is about the nobleman whose son was seeking Capernaum. and he heard about Jesus coming out to Judea. So it's about the healing of the of the sun. That's what I'll be preaching on, because that's what's in the lectionary for this week

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I preach on the gospel.

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Andy Miller III: Yes, it's it's beautiful thing. So II love, I love give you that opportunity because I know you be. You're a public figure. In England. And you have a TV show. People people come to know you, but

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Andy Miller III: I know that your heart

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Andy Miller III: is behind the that's behind all of this. The reason you're willing to speak on these issues is, that's a loving way. You want to will the good for the people who are within your parish, but the people who are under your influence. But it comes together with the reality of proclaiming the Gospel every Sunday.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So I love that

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Andy Miller III: all right. I want to talk about the Oxford Union piece, and the way that this goes is a very famous public hundreds of years old, kind of gathering. What led up to this like. And if, friends, let me. Just stop here for a second. If you haven't seen this, if you just Youtube, Google, Calvin Robinson, likely this will be the first thing that comes up and you need to watch it. You need to watch it. So I just encourage you. Maybe don't stop what you're doing right now. But check this out so. But

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Andy Miller III: assuming that some of my audience has listened to this, tell us, Calvin, what led you to this point, like what's kind of backstory behind the Oxford Union debate for you. Yeah, it's amazing. Over 5 million people have seen it now. So the chances are if you're Christian in the West, you've seen it right astonishing to me. But what are up to it?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I got invited to speak at the Oxford Union, and II speak at a lot of universities. I've previously spoken at the Cambridge Union. But it was on a debate which was obviously controversial.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: This House proposes that same 6 merging. The church is a good thing or something along those lines. And I was asked to speak on the opposing side of okay, this is gonna be a challenging one. So I tried to find out who would be debating.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: They didn't seem too sure took them a while to get back to me. Eventually they said, Dr. Ian Paul would be on your side. I thought, Okay, that's good. He's he's a good theologian. Evangelical sticks the word, for the most part, is wet on women's or the nations, unfortunately, but he's he's a good man other than that.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Glad to hear you say that cause that's where you and I would fall too. So I'm glad you say. Well, generally generally good. So that's good. It is the slippery slope at least all the rest of Liberalism and people that accept that except all the rest eventually. So it's a great shape. However, okay, okay, sorry to interrupt. But II didn't get the rest of my team, so it was look like.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I asked my principal from since Steven's house if he'd be up for it, but he was busy, and I couldn't think of anyone else who'd be competent or capable enough. So I thought, I have to do it.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: otherwise this sounds just not gonna get heard.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And then I turned up and

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Fr Calvin Robinson: there were 3 bishops on the proposing side. I thought, Okay, this is this is not good. We've got 3 bishops from the Established Church arguing against doctrine of the Church. This is baffling.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And the the chairman of the society set chairman of the Union said, we approached every single Roman Catholic bishop in the country. They all declined to come on the opposing side. So okay, that's not good either, so the Church of England is letting us down. But the Roman Catholic Church is letting us down too.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So it turned up so it turned out just being so that you have 4 people on each side. So the 3 bishops and the student on the proposing side, then on my side.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: it was me. Talk to him, Paul, and then we had 2 students, but this they were awful because they started their entire speech with, well, we don't believe this, but you know that's put that caveat to kind of we're not with them, you know. Don't. If you're the work, Bob, don't come for us to. This is what I would say if I believe this despicable. But they didn't. Even argument was poor, not worth watching.

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Dr. And Paul is worth watching, but the other 2, which is not worth watching at all.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So it was just 2 against 6, essentially including the floor speeches that people got up to make, not one person got up to kind of support. Well, actually, there might have been one, but there weren't many people that got up to support the opposing side. They were all standing up to support the proposing side

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Fr Calvin Robinson: of of blessing. Sodomy.

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Andy Miller III: Hmm.

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Andy Miller III: okay, this is a wild moment to me. I mean, this is not an average

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Andy Miller III: thing to do. Like to go and stand in place where you studied to a very important public gathering and what it II know I know it might just seem like so natural to you.

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Andy Miller III: But this is a wild thing, Calvin. You did. I mean this is a very brave, hard, I mean. You're probably going to take more heat for this than you have blessings of somebody like me from Mississippi. Come along, saying, way to go. Good job, Cal, I mean, this is, this is a very hard thing to do. Why, what is it in you that led you to go ahead and stand up for this, even when you couldn't even get people come alongside you except for one person.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: because it wasn't about me. It was about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and we are supposed to be on his side. Right people often say that the Lord's on our side is like, no, the Lord's not on our side. We have to be on His side, that's the difference. And so we have to stand up for His word, and we have to proclaim his word. That's what we're called to do. And I thought.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: if no one else is going to do it, I've got to do it, and II did feel inferior. I felt it wasn't my place, you know. I was very recently ordained the deacon, so I'm a lobe in terms of my my stance in the church to go up against 3 bishops. It didn't feel right.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And it was. It was very stressful experiences, the most stressful speaking experience I've ever had. and of course the room at the time was very hostile. and not at all open to

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Fr Calvin Robinson: freedom of speech or freedom of debate actually, for for a union centered on debate. It was quite surprising. but it just had to be done. And I'm not brave, and I'm not strong.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: But

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I get my strength and my bravery from the Lord. I ask him

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Fr Calvin Robinson: to make me his vessel, and that's what I think he did at that time. Hmm!

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Andy Miller III: How do you feel like you did? How how did in in that moment like, yeah.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Oh, at the moment I didn't feel like I did well at all, and you know I've I've said this on previous interviews, but

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I was probably quite depressed. Afterwards. I took a few days off and kept myself to myself.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I thought I'd let this did to debate down the team down, but I thought I'd let God down, and that was that was difficult for me, actually.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: you know, I went back to. So I was in office. So I stayed at my former college that night, and I went to breakfast the morning, and I remember my print. My former principal asked me, how'd you do? I was like, Yeah, I don't watch. It wasn't very good.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I'm sorry.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: yeah, it was. It was tough. Yeah. And we obviously we lost the debate massively.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: There were a few people afterwards who came up quietly. I agree with you, but I wasn't gonna say anything in front of these people. It's like, Thank you. But it would've been helpful if you had.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And then 2 months later, it gets put on the Internet. and it just goes crazy. And that taught me a few lessons. Actually, one of them was humility, because

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Fr Calvin Robinson: it wasn't my place to feel down about how I'd done, because it wasn't my place to see the results.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I was there to plant seeds on his behalf.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: but where? It's not our place to see the those seeds bare fruit.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: So whilst I'd been there thinking, Okay, no one's heard what I had to say.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: People had heard, but it the audience wasn't the audience in the room at the time. Those with ears to hear around 5 like, say, over 5 million people now around the world have heard what I had to say at the time.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and I'm very blessed to know that those people have seen, and half of so many people getting in touch, and is, is honestly touches my heart every time with wonderful

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Fr Calvin Robinson: support for hearing the word publicly proc proclaimed, and that's a great blessing that's got as a permits to me to receive that that gift. But

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Fr Calvin Robinson: it's not granted, you know it's not a given, and that's that's been a lesson that I've taken from this, that one of the reasons we're to speak the truth at all times is because we never know who's going to hear it. And we're not always going to know.

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Andy Miller III: It's it's that faithfulness to in obedience in that moment, even if Calvin, even if it hadn't resulted an opportunity for you to for you and I to be in this conversation, I imagine, wouldn't be. I wouldn't be in this conversation with you. Had that not happened, and other opportunities for public ministry for you, even if none of that had happened, it would have been the right thing to do

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Fr Calvin Robinson: absolutely.

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Andy Miller III: Now what's happened for you? Since then, do you have you've mentioned like you have your parish ministry and your public ministry. What is that public ministry that you have? II know that there's some things happening on TV, and you might be get called on a regular basis to represent a conservative opinion. But tell us about some of things you're doing right. So until very recently I had my own TV show on Channel 4 Gb. News. It was called Calvin's Command Sense Crusade.

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So for the last year and a half I've been talking about current events from a faith perspective and really trying to put Christianity back in the public square.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: and that we that's been successful. And I get invited onto other shows on other channels and and try to do the same.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: but it was great to be able to have a platform centered on Christ. which used to be what we did in this country. and and that's not happening anymore, is there? No, no, I've been fired from that channel

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Fr Calvin Robinson: recent controversy of of last week, or whatever but a week before. But yeah, that was an issue of free speech. Essentially. There's a whole back story to it. I don't really want to go into just to Summit. Just to sum it up real briefly.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: 1 one chap said something he shouldn't have said on air. He got suspended. The person whose show he was on got suspended, and I said, Look, I don't agree with what was said. However, if we can't call ourselves the home of free Speech, and cancel 2 presenters for over this. It's ridiculous. There's a lot of hysteria.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And then I got suspended, too, and eventually fired so I was trying to stand up for free speech, and also stand up for my friends and

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Fr Calvin Robinson: try to show some loyalty. But I don't regret it at all, because I think we need more of that in the public square, too, we need people standing up for what's right, even when it cost them their job. Because quite often people say, Oh, yeah, I agree with you, but you know I can't say anything because of my job is well, then, you don't truly believe it do right. We have to develop a theology of getting fired.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Well, it's just a fear of the Lord more than our fear of the world. Yes, Amen, that's what it comes down to.

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Andy Miller III: I. And I think like if we believe that there is a new heavens in a new earth on its way, you know, if Jesus is gonna return and put everything right, and that's ultimate reality found in our triune God.

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Andy Miller III: I want to be there. I want to be. I want to be with that truth. I want to connect myself to that truth more than I do with what is coming in the moment, and that's why I wanted to highlight you, and I so appreciate the ministry God's called you to take on. I mean, this is, who knows? I mean, who knows all the things that were a part of your development that led you to this point. I just so appreciate Calvin, the way you're standing up for the truth. Thank you. That's very kind of you to say

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Andy Miller III: II will. The name of my podcast. Is more to the story, and I do that for a couple of reasons. One, I like to hear more than just like what we can pick up on Youtube. So so thankful for your time with this to hear more of this story of your personal story. There's also theological reason behind it, and I think of there's more than just getting saved. There's also the process of sanctifying grace in our life, and the opportunity to know that there's a moments for us

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Andy Miller III: to continue to seek the way that God wants to do more in our lives, but I also see it kind of in a kind of a more

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Andy Miller III: funny sort of way every now and then. Is there more to the story of Calvinists normally told like, is there something? Is there a hobby that you have that you've done a lot of podcast interviews, live TV interviews. Is there something about you that people generally don't know that you could share with us quite a bit. So most most of stuff about me is known.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I used to do martial arts in the day. I have a black belt and an instructor's license in Tae kwon. Do so once. I eventually planted a church. I'd love to set up a

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Taekwondo club in the church and bring that into it as as a way of encouraging masculinity. I think we have a real lack of masculinity in our culture. Right now we need more masculine Christians. We need more men to be men and to be chivalrous and gentlemen, and to be providers and protectors, and to restore the patriarchy.

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Andy Miller III: Hmm, wow! A lot of people resist the idea of restoring the patriarchy. But I love like so what would that mean? What would? What would a society look like where the patriarchy is restored?

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Well, there's a couple of ways of looking at it. One is that women are the fairer sex, generally speaking, so who? Who best to look out to look out for women than men.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: because we are the ones protecting women from other men. The only PE people who challenge men are men. Right? So there's that old fashioned and I appreciate that it's an old fashion mentality, but it's one that comes from a place of an ability comes from place of actually wanting. The best is a is a willing, the good of the other. Right is is, men should be, should be looking out for women because we love women, and just in the same way that women look out for men in different ways. You know, women are more emotionally intelligent than men, so they provide a different and more nurturing than men and women have lots of

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Fr Calvin Robinson: benefits that men do not have. So I'm not trying to paint men as superior to women, just men physically stronger, the women.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: And that's something that our society understood until recently. But also it's wider than that. It's not about us. None of this is about us. You know. The wokeness stuff we talked about earlier wasn't really about us. It's about disconnecting us from our God. It's the enemy attacking God. All of it is, and this is exactly the same thing with the patriarchy God. The Father is the ultimate patriarch. He asked us to call him, Aba.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: right, he he provides and protects for us. He looks after us as any good father does. He provides boundaries for us to live within, and when we breach those boundaries, when we break his laws, he forgives us and loves us unconditionally. He is the ultimate Father. He is the ultimate patriarch, and that is why the work Liberals, on behalf of the enemy want to destroy the patriarch because they want to destroy God. Of course they can never win that

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battle, and God has already won. But the enemy, in going down kicking and screaming, wants to disrupt our Lord as much as he can. So we on on our Lord behalf have to restore the patriarchy.

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Andy Miller III: Beautiful? No! What what's happening is interesting. You said your. Is it your desire? Do you feel called to plant a church.

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Andy Miller III: Is that your home? Yeah, I mean

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Fr Calvin Robinson: from so where I am

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Fr Calvin Robinson: in my ministry there is not really a church that I could go into, whether that's

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Fr Calvin Robinson: in London, or or pretty much anywhere in the in the United Kingdom. If I if I'm just even stay here, who knows it. This I don't think it's coincidence that I've been sacked from my public ministry or sacked from my TV job.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: You know.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: days before I get ordained to the priesthood.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: I don't. I don't believe in coincidences, so my calling is clearly changing. So I'm just in a prem. In a period of discernment now trying to look for the door that God's opening to me so that I can walk through that, and didn't do the best that I can for him

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Fr Calvin Robinson: think we have to model our lives on Christ in His canosis, and try to empty ourselves of our will and try to be full of God's. Well, it's the most difficult thing in the world, but that's what we're supposed to be trying to do. So.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Eventually I would love to plant a church. I don't know if that's what I'm core to again. I'm I'll see. But check back in with me in a few months, and that sounds good. Well, wherever it is there might be tae Kwon do lessons happening. Absolutely. I like the idea that, Calvin. Thank you so much for your time. It's really delight. I hope we get a meet sometime and shake hands and have a cup of coffee. But it's a real privilege to talk to you and just hear my encouragement. I just appreciate the way

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Andy Miller III: that you're taking the gospel seriously and standing up for it in your culture, and we applaud you here from Jackson, Mississippi.

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Fr Calvin Robinson: Thank you, brother, I appreciate that. God bless you! You, too.