Five Discipleship Principles with Matt Friedeman

On today’s podcast I unite with the Life-Changing Discipleship podcast with Matt Friedeman to discuss discipleship principles from Jude and concerns facing pastors today.

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Contender: Going Deeper in the Book of Jude - This all-inclusive small group study on the book of Jude is out now. Check it out on the course page: http://courses.andymilleriii.com

Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching - I’m excited to share some news with you.  Recently, I updated this PDF document and added a 45-minute teaching video with slides, explaining this tool. It's like a mini-course. If you sign up for my list, I will send this free resource to you. Sign up here - www.AndyMillerIII.com or Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching.

Today’s episode is brought to you by these two sponsors:

Keith Waters and his team at WPO Development do an amazing job helping non-profits and churches through mission planning studies, strategic plans, feasibility studies, and capital campaigns. We are honored to have Keith and WPO on the More to the Story team. You can find out more about them at www.wpodevelopment.com or touch base directly with Keith at Keith.Waters@wpodevelopment.com.

AND

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Thanks too to Phil Laeger for the new podcast music. You can find out about Phil's music at https://www.laeger.net

Transcript

Andy

I just love hearing that soundtrack and my thanks to Phil Legger, who's made that happen.

Andy

You might hear a little quote in there some of you.

Andy

It's a quote of the tune from the 20 boundless salvation. Come roll over me. It's in there so check out Phil's music. You can find the link to.

Andy

I'm here, I'm the more to the story podcast in my show notes or so.

Andy

Glad that you've come along for this episode.

Andy

This is a combined episode with a life changing discipleship with Matt Friedman and we're going to do some introductions here as it comes along, but I'm so thankful for you being a part of this community and we look forward to sharing this content.

Matt

With you hey friends, great to have you with us today.

Matt

Remember the place for a man.

Matt

For woman completing all their powers is in the fight and right now today somewhere in the world making disciples of the nation.

Matt

So stay tuned and stay encouraged.

Matt

We've got a rendezvous with destiny.

Matt

And if that's a little bit different of intro for you is because you are a more to the story podcast guy with Andy Miller who's here with us today and we're doing this kind.

Andy

Of jointly right.

Andy

Absolutely right.

Andy

Combine it to podcast.

Matt

And hours, of course, is the life changing discipleship podcast with Matt Freedom. And so we want to throw out a couple of advertisements here still OK, and I'm going to do mine 1st and I'm gonna let you do yours. First off, I'd really like for you to check out the five Q discipleship com quick Start up guide. Some of you have been hearing about this 5Q discipleship.

Andy

Let's do it, yeah.

Matt

And by the way, Andy has done some 5Q.

Andy

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt

This option group so.

Andy

I love it, yeah.

Matt

It's it's really going well, thousands and thousands of people are in this group all across the world right now, and we just want to get in on it.

Matt

So if we're wondering.

Matt

What is this? You can check it out at 5 Q that number 5, the actual #5Q discipleship com and get a quick start guide and I think if you get.

Matt

I I showed it to yesterday.

Andy

It looks beautiful and yeah.

Matt

Andy yeah it's great and it gives you the cards necessary to have your own group and.

Andy

Have free mat.

Matt

Is ah, yes it is free.

Speaker 1

Oh no.

Matt

I do free things and.

Matt

I do free.

Matt

Things yeah.

Matt

And then of course, if you want to buy something and some people say you know I, I like this thing so much I want to buy something.

Matt

Well, you can go and check out the book the the five Q method of discipleship at Amazon.com.

Matt

So that's my ad for the.

Andy

Day and tap into your five because I like emphasizing the number 5 so you have the five Q.

Hey OK.

Speaker 1

OK.

Andy

I have five steps to deeper teaching and preach.

Andy

So whether this is a little guide, it's a eight page PDF document and a 45 minute teaching that's available from me.

Andy

It's something that I take like my preaching students through to help develop content in a way that inductively approaches the scripture but creatively thinks about how to present to an audience that we're serving.

Andy

So that's available.

Andy

If you sign up for my e-mail list.

Andy

At andymillerthethird.com Andy Miller I I.

Matt

I'll go ahead and commend that to you.

Matt

First off, and he's a tremendous communicator for my side.

Matt

God is his side in.

Matt

Somebody knows that my side of the audience here you may not know that and animals a great communicator knows how to put things together and teaches preaching at Wesley.

Andy

Biblical seminary, which is our sponsor as well, right?

Matt

Yeah, well, we ain't here.

Andy

Leslie Biblical seminary

Matt

Even in front.

Ha ha ha.

Matt

Of that, that's for.

Matt

Sure, so anyway.

Matt

Great stuff listen.

Matt

I like to usually talk about an issue before we get to the thing.

Andy

Let's do it, yeah.

Matt

And you are the thing today, so we're going to do 5 discipleship principles from the book of and I I'm not going to tell you what it is yet.

Well, thanks for saying.

Speaker 1

Ha ha ha.

Matt

Yeah, but we're going New Testament today.

Matt

Yes, and it's your wheelhouse.

Matt

So we're excited about that.

Matt

First off real quick, I want to get to this.

Matt

I saw an article in Christianity Today.

Matt

I actually was zipping through today and saw this.

Matt

I thought isn't that interesting and the name of the article and he was our pulpits are full of empty preachers.

Matt

10s of thousands of passengers want to quit, but haven't.

Matt

So what's going on?

Matt

And when I found out that empty preachers I thought of TS Eliot, the Hollow man.

Matt

The empty man blown to and fro by the wind and this is what that the CT article said.

Matt

That apparently.

Matt

Uhm, in January of 2020 129% of clergy had thought about quitting, but less than a year later.

Matt

38% were thinking about quitting. Wow, that's stunning. We're talking about a third and more of our clergy out there.

Matt

Thinking I don't want to do this anymore, yeah, now this is what, by the way, everybody picked up on this.

Matt

The Washington Post picked up on the Wall Street Journal. They calling it the great Ministry resignation that they think is on the horizon. Yeah, but this whole article is 25 pages.

Matt

They say it's reason to think that the more likely alternative is that pastors aren't going to quit nearly so much as that, and that's even more concerning.

Andy

Right?

Andy

Right hip to empty printy preachers concept that title is really interesting.

Andy

Our pulpits are full of empty preachers.

Andy

Normally you think our our pulpits are empty right?

Andy

You think the pulpits being empty but it shifts that language to say empty preacher.

Matt

OK, let's go real quick.

Matt

Yeah, top of our head why?

Matt

You've done a significant amount of pastoring. I'm currently a pastor. I've been doing it for 22 years as at the at the current church I'm at.

Matt

Why are guys apparently burned out gals as well?

Matt

Why are people burned out and thinking about quitting?

Andy

Yeah, it's interesting because as this has happened, it's been a phenomenon some people call it the great resignation that what's happened.

Andy

Since 2020, as a result of COVID, I think some people see that as a cause.

Andy

But as this happens, you wonder what is leading people that place, but the challenge for preachers.

Andy

And I've heard this from many people I've made a transition in that period as well.

Andy

I didn't transition out of ministry or out of preaching, but I left full-time kind of like local church ministry for serving in a seminary and so people have talked to me over the last year and wonder about that.

Andy

Change the challenge is there aren't many places for preachers to go.

Andy

I think that's part of why people.

Andy

Aren't there might be people who are thinking about leaving but aren't leaving?

Matt

Yeah, what do I do if I don't do this right right?

Matt

I mean you go to school.

Matt

For this you get trained for this.

Matt

You do this for a while and guess what?

Matt

There's not a lot of other executive positions that are going to want you because you've.

Andy

Got church experience right?

Andy

Absolutely and while that does have executive experience.

Andy

And skills that people have learned.

Andy

It's not easy to convince people in the business community that that's a transfer, but also like the fulfillment of it.

Andy

Like I think one of the challenges.

Andy

Or maybe you're going to get.

Andy

This is that, why?

Andy

Why are people in a place where they want to leave?

Andy

Well, there certainly are pressures in the local church, but at the same time, is there something happening with the empty preacher like?

Andy

Why are we empty?

Andy

And I think that that's probably the thing that needs to be.

Andy

Challenged the most OK I.

Matt

I think the reason for this is going to come right out of our five things.

Matt

I would do if I were the burned.

Matt

OK now and how to hang in there when you just feel like I want to quit.

Andy

Right, yeah?

Matt

Yeah, and I think these five things I think are tremendous antidotes.

Matt

I want once you speak into them, the first one, actually, I think all of these.

Matt

They're obviously none of my rocket science, but we're not doing them.

Andy

Hmm, that's it.

Matt

So you can say all you want about vitamins and minerals and a healthy diet, but if you're not eating a healthy diet, knowing about it isn't really helpful.

Andy

That's right, right?

Matt

So these are things we know about, we're just not doing it.

Matt

First off is what we call the means of grace, and that's basically the spiritual disciplines of having.

Matt

There are time with the Lord everyday you know, Jesus, we suspect had three times of these three times.

Matt

They would go to the temple during the day if they couldn't get their, they'd stop wherever they were.

Matt

They would face the temple and they'd go through a list of benedictions and an attack on to all Jews were doing that at the time of Jesus, we know Jesus was doing that.

Matt

So three times a day.

Matt

For him, probably something that equaled an hour and a half to two hours.

Matt

Yeah, that's was normative for Jesus, and he had an extraordinary life where if you're not doing that, you're going to get burned out.

Matt

But what I'm fascinated by is the number of pastors that will say, well, I'm not really doing.

Andy

Right in in the last year since I've been serving this role, I've done more events for pastors, and I'm often surprised at how many people will admit, just like freely offer it up that they don't have a personal quiet time.

Andy

And I think one of the antidotes to this.

Andy

Is seminary education.

Andy

And the similar education in the spirit that we offer here at West Bill summary if somebody comes through our seminary program, they are going to be put in a position that in order to get a good grade in order to get past a class, they need to have a regular quiet time and they need to be able to spend time in scripture, right?

Andy

And when you ask people and like, honestly, if a pastor is listening to this and they're wondering like I'm feeling burnt out.

Andy

Honestly, actually, how is your quiet time right?

Andy

Do you have one?

Andy

Are you spending time with the Lord Daily?

Matt

Right?

Matt

So the means of grace have two sides of them.

Matt

As far as we can tell, the the first side is piety, so the works of piety and piety.

Speaker 1

Right?

Andy

Yes, yes.

Matt

It's searching the scriptures, it's fasting something that almost no American does right.

Matt

It's regular fasting, and for the early church and for the early Methodists, that was twice a week, Wednesday and Fridays they fasted, so it's fasting.

Matt

It's scripture meditation, it's being in a small group, and in a large group.

Matt

They call it Christian conferencing in the day, but on the whole, what that meant was I'm part of a regular fellowship and part of a small group, so that's the works.

Right?

Matt

The other one I think is too often neglected or the works of mercy.

Matt

Yes, to go to some place in your community where there are desperate and needy people and spend an hour or two a week and those two things together.

Matt

It's powerful.

Matt

That's how you can be with Jesus, and you know.

Matt

Work, somebody say not work with Jesus.

Matt

Doing a work of mercy.

Matt

All contrary and as much if you've done it to the least of.

Matt

These you've done it under me.

Matt

You want a personal relationship with Jesus.

Matt

Go serve him in the poor and that personal relationship will be magnified.

Matt

So I just would say the works of mercy, the works of piety we call together the means of grace are exceedingly important for all people.

Andy

Right?

Matt

Let alone pastures that feel out, feel like they're burned out right now.

Matt

The second thing I would say is this.

Matt

I think if your.

Matt

Passion he's a pastors.

Matt

Group, and by the way, by zoom this is easier than ever before.

Matt

Twice a week.

Matt

I don't why I get to have two of these, but I have two excellent ones, uh?

Matt

Basically, well, actually they both.

Matt

Former students that feel more like peers to me.

Matt

But on Monday and on Friday I get together with two circle groups of pastors that fortify my soul. Yes, we do a 5Q group.

Matt

By the way, OK, but in that five Q group, we're doing real sharing and confessing, and these are my struggles.

Matt

It's a beautiful.

Andy

Thing, let me jump in because one thing I think would be helpful for people think about particularly lay leaders who are listening to these.

Andy

Broadcast, you might say, well, what does this have to do with me here?

Andy

So as a pastor I loved it.

Andy

When my the people I was serving I I try not say my people but they would come to me and say how are you taking care of yourself?

Andy

Yep, here, here's what you are.

Andy

You look.

Andy

I'm glad to put that out there.

Andy

And if you can encourage people to, you can encourage your pastor to make sure this is happening.

Andy

And even.

Andy

Provide some accountability to your pastor.

Matt

Yeah, and forget about your passion.

Matt

Do it.

Matt

Do it for.

Matt

You Oh yeah, yeah.

Matt

Listen, this is important for that was going to be the kicker, but you.

Matt

Got you got to kick?

Andy

I'm sorry jump the gun.

Matt

Up before the kicker, and that is if you want to be an awesome layman or a non burned out layman do these things.

Andy

Amen, Amen.

Matt

You need a group of people you can get together and share with.

Matt

The third thing is simply this and debits going on.

Matt

Yeah, yeah yeah, but stay healthy.

Matt

Get healthy, you know we all could lose some weight.

Matt

For the most part, most of us need to lose some weight.

Matt

We probably need to start eating better.

Matt

We need to get more sleep.

Matt

That's just a healthy dynamic there that is so very important.

Andy

Less TV is that all your points to drop off the maybe maybe say I don't need to pay for Netflix.

Matt

Ah, it's no.

And I.

Matt

Uh, hang on just me boy, you you step in something right there screen screen time of all kinds yes do the screen time you need to do not the screen time you want.

Andy

Oh, I got Matt going.

Matt

To do right.

Matt

We've got a new book coming out here real soon called the new Discipleship in the home has a whole chapter on that.

Matt

OK, and if you want to destroy your kids brain, give him a screen.

Matt

And say have at.

Matt

It wow yeah but the same thing I think would go for us.

Matt

Good good stuff there.

Matt

The fourth thing is you've got to have a good theology of.

Matt

God in order to stay in tune to the pastor or to your lay.

Matt

Work and basically that means you need to know that you're surrounded.

Matt

Gave up, gave a sermon on this to Wesley both cemetery long long ago.

Matt

You are surrounded so when you get into Christianity, no, you're surrounded by evil.

Matt

You're surrounded by the devil.

Matt

You're surrounded by his demons.

Matt

You are surrounded.

Matt

A lot of people get into Christianity, or by extension, they get into the ministry thinking and this is going to.

Matt

Be so great.

Matt

You know this is just gonna be joy and love and and when I go into the pasture my people going now they might not like the last guy but the last guy can't preach like out.

Andy

Oh man, just wait till they hear me.

Matt

And preach.

Matt

You know, wait till they hear me wait till they get a hold of my personality.

Matt

Everything is going to go great and they forget something.

Matt

You're surrounded by evil now.

Matt

Might not be laypeople, but sometimes it is.

Matt

But you are surrounded but the good theology comes to this.

Matt

You have a greater surrounding.

Matt

Yes, Amen and God and so in the Psalms, for instance, there's that word surround, surround, surround and it talks about both dynamics.

Andy

Right?

Matt

You're surrounded by evil.

Matt

Surrounded by difficulty surrounded by the devil him.

Matt

Self, but you are surrounded by God.

Matt

You're surrounded by truth and righteousness and you've got to recognize boy.

Matt

When I signed up for this Christianity thing or when I signed up for this ministry thing, I signed up to be surrounded.

Andy

Yes, I love that.

Andy

I love that imagery.

Andy

I'm surrounded.

Andy

If we can pull that power into these difficult points, I think that that's what God can use to help us, so we're not empty pastors.

Matt

So well.

Matt

One last thing here, we need to become a people of Thanksgiving, so this is I shared with a discipleship group not long ago.

Matt

So you know I've started a new discipline.

Matt

I've decided I'm going to write down every morning three things I'm thankful for.

Matt

So start doing it and I shared that with him and one of the guys was a former prisoner.

Matt

He said, well, I tell you what?

Matt

I did every.

Matt

Morning says I before my feet ever hit the floor, I would.

Matt

He went down on his knees, so his feet hadn't hit the floor, yet his toes had his feet, hadn't he said before my souls.

Matt

Hit the floor.

Matt

I would give thanks to God for 20 things.

Speaker 1

Hey man, wow.

Matt

I said well 20 is better than three.

Matt

No question about it.

Matt

Then I read something awesome and it was this and you're not going to get any meaning out of this at all.

Matt

When I read it, but it's X is 38 versus 27, the 100 talents of silver we used to cast the basis for the sanctuary and for the curtain 100 basis for the 100 talents, one talent for each base.

Matt

You're thinking, excuse me, there were 100 sockets that served as a foundation for the sanctuary.

Matt

So ancient Jewish wisdom started teaching. Therefore, there ought to be 100 blessings coming out of your mouth every day, because that's the foundation for holiness. I started to try to do that to 100 hundred OK.

Andy

Wow, Matt.

Matt

The road thank you, Lord Jesus, for the color green.

Matt

Thank you Lord Jesus, for the red light.

Matt

That says stop.

Matt

That is the rule of law.

Matt

I thank you for the rule of law.

Matt

Thank you God, for when you say go, because that's one of the chief words of the New Testament.

Matt

Thank you for going and I just start thinking.

Matt

Stuff, I just let my mind drift and go and it's it's it's a.

Matt

Blast oh I love it.

Matt

OK what?

Andy

It's 3 to 20 to 100.

Matt

And do that 100 times a day and your mind starts thinking on a whole different level. So check out that five Q discipleship.com Quick Start guide. I think you'll really like that.

Matt

Folks, that's one of the ways you can stay healthy.

Matt

Is do that with other pastors.

Matt

Do that with other laymen.

Matt

Do with other people.

Matt

And sometimes Andy I've got like.

Matt

Seven or eight of those groups going a.

Matt

Week feeds my soul.

Andy

Wow, amazing.

Matt

I'm excited to have you on the program today.

Matt

Because Andy you are going to share with us something we've been doing across the last several weeks of this program.

Matt

And that is 5 things out of a certain book of the Bible.

Matt

Yeah, that are discipleship lessons for us today, right?

Matt

So you happen to be an expert on the book of.

Matt

Jude that's right, Jude.

Matt

Now, how many verses did you have?

Andy

It's only 25 verses.

So the whole bunch.

Matt

And can you squeeze?

Matt

Five to South shipping spells out of Jude.

Andy

I I don't know I did Deuteronomy a few months ago, so that was a little easier.

Andy

I had a lot.

Andy

More material to work with.

Matt

OK, we're going to bracket this.

Matt

With start first.

Matt

Start off saying you're doing something right now.

Matt

Book of Jude that is an.

Matt

Offer to people, right?

Andy

Absolutely, this is been an interesting thing.

Andy

I never.

Andy

Dreamed that I.

Andy

Would come to love this little book so much.

Andy

But I'll tell you, Matt, before I started to study Jude.

Andy

I had a Jude less Christianity and I've gotta tell you I just.

Speaker 1

Love this book.

Andy

Yeah, I and and part of the reason.

Andy

Here's what my experience was with Jude.

Andy

I would read it in my quiet time once a year, probably one day I would read it and it take Me 2 minutes to read it.

Andy

And I read the beginning, read the end, look at the middle in the middle was crazy to me and I'm going to bring up some of that craziness.

Andy

But if you get behind what Jude is trying to do, what he's trying to communicate to his audience.

Andy

I found it incredibly powerful for our time, so that's part of my other Michael Green and apologist from the UK with somebody I found really interesting.

Andy

He said that as long as sin is rampant as long and he has this long list of problems in the world, he says the letter of Jude will be uncomfortably in Burningly

Matt

Relevant wow.

Matt

OK, so you are offering this.

Andy

Oh right, I didn't say what I'm doing, yeah?

Matt

Too sure, no, no, that's OK.

Matt

Well let's.

Matt

Set it up at the end of this, we're going to.

Matt

We're going to tell people how they can plug into this right for their small group.

Matt

Well, individually for their small group or.

Andy

For the whole church, that's right, yeah.

Andy

So I've I've a study that's available.

Andy

Andy Miller third.

Andy

Com and so it walks people through it's five hours of content, discussion guides discussion forums that leads people through this book so you know, I.

Andy

Talk about I'm going to talk about it here like in five to 10 minutes, right?

Andy

But I have five hours available at my website, so.

Matt

Five desktop ship rimple principles from the Book of Jude, number one, Andy Miller.

Andy

The very first one is flexibility.

Andy

Now these kind of blend together discipleship.

Andy

Up in spiritual formation altogether, one of the things that people don't realize about Jude that's incredibly helpful is that Jude did not want to write this letter.

Andy

He starts off by saying in verse three dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, he said I wanted to do this.

Andy

He then says I felt compelled to write and urge you to.

Andy

Contend for the faith once for all delivered to the Saints.

Andy

And then he goes through all of these challenges.

Andy

Now look, this is relevant to us at this point, because particularly as it relates to sexual revolution and the way our society is trending, I don't want to be somebody who has to talk about issues of sexuality on regulation.

Andy

I don't want to talk about rather.

Andy

Or not truth exist.

Andy

In the world, they look at the challenges of modernity.

Andy

Postmodernity, where our culture is but you know what?

Andy

The job of the.

Andy

Disciple is is.

Andy

To live in their time that God called us at this point.

Andy

So we have to be flexible in these days.

Andy

I would rather write about the salvation we all share, but instead.

Andy

Because the situations have come and what the situation is in Jude's for Jude's audience is that a group of what Richard Bauckham calls itinerant charismatics have secretly slipped in and are promoting kindness.

Andy

A big word antinomianism, but the idea that our fate are that God's grace is a license to sin.

Andy

That God's grace just gives us an I like what Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Andy

Called cheap grace.

Matt

I like this thought.

Matt

I don't want to deal with this issue, but I kind of got it.

Matt

You have to.

Matt

So yeah, I got something like this in my Life OK, you know, there's a.

Matt

Supreme Court case recently.

Matt

That overturn Roe V.

Andy

We don't want to talk about.

Matt

Who wants to do that?

Matt

And who wants to show up out at the abortion clinic now that abortion clinic in the Supreme Court case was here in Jackson, Ms?

Andy

Absolutely yeah.

Matt

It's not 3 miles from my house, right?

Matt

I don't want to go out there.

Matt

That's not, you know.

Matt

I'm a respectable guy.

Matt

I don't like to do these kinds of things and you go out there and people.

Right?

Matt

I don't like you 'cause you're out there.

Andy

I'm not sure they take pictures of, you know I've been out there as soon as they get.

Andy

Out there taking pictures of my children, yeah.

Matt

International media stuff.

Matt

It's just crazy, but and I'm not gifted.

Matt

For it that's.

Matt

Not where I'm gifted sure sure and yet.

Matt

There's the issue.

Matt

It's it's 3 miles from my house.

Matt

I'm a pastor.

Matt

I'm supposed to be leading a people to topple unrighteousness.

Matt

In our culture, what am I?

Andy

Going to do, yeah, that's contending you do it anyway.

Andy

You contend you get in that and that's the same thing we deal with with all kinds of issues.

Andy

We could list them by the hundreds, but with abortion with sexuality, it's a.

Andy

It's a pastor.

Andy

Job, it's a.

Andy

It's a disciple makers job.

Andy

To be able to engage the people they're discipling about, the nature of human sexuality.

Andy

As it's revealed in Scripture.

Matt

Flexibility is number 1 #2.

Andy

Keeping keeping this is a word that's underrated in scripture, but it's a word that comes all throughout Jude. Now it's I can say all throughout, even those 25 verses.

Andy

He begins by saying to those who have been called who are loved in God the father and kept for Jesus Christ, and then later he contrasts this.

Andy

By the way, he talks about the angels.

Andy

He says they did not.

Andy

The Angels who we would assume.

Andy

Come demons who are fallen angels did not keep their proper positions, and so then he then says something later he says they have been kept in darkness, but then at the end of a letter he uses that word.

Andy

Keep two more times.

Andy

He says it's our jobs to keep ourselves in the most.

Andy

Holy faith now. This kind of emphasizes this dual focus that we have God's initiative in bringing us to a place of saving grace, but we have a role to in the relationship, a relationally significant task of keeping ourselves maybe through the five things we.

Andy

Just talked about pastors.

Andy

To do keeping ourselves in the most holy faith, and then he concludes in a great way that mostly people the way I knew Jude was through the last two vert 3 verses.

Andy

Now to him who is able.

Andy

To what keep you keep?

Andy

What is what can he keep you from stumbling?

Andy

And this is the powerful message that you and I believe that there's never a time in our life where we have to send.

Andy

Because if we allow God to keep us, we do not have to fall into sin.

Matt

Good word, good word.

Matt

What's the shepherding implications of keeping?

Andy

Oh interesting, yeah yeah.

Andy

So there's also this side where the the keepers you know have a responsibility to ensure that people were serving are protected.

Andy

You know this is 1 interesting thing like Jew didn't want to write this.

Andy

Like he had to, he had to fight for his people.

Andy

The shepherd has to occasionally take the staff and hit some wolves in the head and I think that's that's the implication here is that Jude had to step up and decide I'm going to protect this.

Andy

This group I'm going to keep them in the fold.

Matt

Yeah, like I like both emphasis.

Matt

You need to do some things to keep yourself by the grace of God.

Matt

In his hand, but.

Matt

You probably need to have somebody looking over your life, right, right?

Matt

Also, you need to be looking over someones life, yeah, 'cause that's trifold.

Matt

So good stuff.

Matt

OK, so first to stop ship principle flexibility. Second to stop ship principle from the book of Jude keeping #3.

Andy

And the third is connected to keeping and I've your.

Andy

I think you're gonna love this because it's the works of piety.

Andy

Works of mercy snatching.

Andy

Snatching now.

Andy

What I mean by that interesting thing that happens as we get to the pivot that comes in Jude in verse 20 after he kind of describes a problem that exists.

Andy

He then says, but you, dear friends, you need to keep yourself.

Andy

So we just talked about that.

Andy

Well, keep is the main verb in that sentence.

Andy

And then there are four participles that support that verb.

Andy

And you can.

Andy

It could be translated with an ING ING.

Andy

So how are people kept by building, praying, waiting or or hoping?

Andy

Looking for something and then the final thing that he says it comes in verse 23 save others by snatching.

Andy

So how is it that it's OK snatching them from the fire?

Andy

So this is where ***** Crosby gets the idea and rescue the perishing.

My thing.

Andy

You know, ****** them in pity from sin in the grave.

Andy

My denomination the Salvation Army talks about, like our call to save other people.

Andy

We need a snack.

Andy

Go do some work like snatching.

Andy

Helping people to lead to a place of getting out of hell quite frankly.

Andy

Is a part of the way we're kept, so it's not just in building, praying, hoping, but also snatching snatchings a key part of the Christian faith.

Matt

So how do you do that?

Matt

How do you?

Andy

****** oh wait, well see, I think that this is this is a challenge we need to witness.

Andy

Yeah, we need to tell other people.

Andy

Do we need to do what we can to contend for the souls of people who are around us?

Andy

And I say.

Andy

Souls is kind of a picture of the broad person as a.

Andy

Whole that we.

Andy

Believe that if if you affirm that there is such a thing as hell.

Andy

In the world that that will come at some point, rather whatever form it might take right, like we want to save people from now.

Andy

And so for.

Andy

The discipleship spiritual formation emphasis is like you're not being a disciple.

Andy

If you're not snatching, you need to ****** other people from the direction of a.

Matt

Moving torch tap.

Matt

I just think it's interesting there's a number of ways you could ******

Matt

You could physically put your hands on people and snatchem you could yell at them to ****** him.

Andy

Yeah, yeah.

Matt

You could, I think the most powerful weapon to ****** someone.

Matt

Is love.

Andy

Well, of course.

Andy

Jude says, ****** them from the fire.

Andy

To others show mercy mixed with fear.

Matt

Very nice.

Andy

Snatching isn't just like, yeah, snatching is a loving.

Matt

Act yeah, it is a loving act and sometimes it might include yelling or grabbing you know.

Matt

But on the whole I, I think, uh, love is a powerful, powerful weapon to actually for all these things, flexibility keeping snatching that they're all covered by loving one way or another, OK?

Andy

#4 and #4.

Matt

This is good stuff.

Andy

So this is where it.

Matt

Good stuff Andy.

Andy

Gets a little complicated, but this is what keeps people away from Jude.

Andy

Is the verse that talks in verse 9, but even the Archangel Michael, when he was disputing.

Andy

With the devil about the body of Moses did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said.

Andy

The Lord rebuke you.

Matt

What's going on?

Andy

I know this is the craziest.

Andy

First like.

Andy

Didn't remember you.

Andy

Did you teach your kids to memorize this?

Andy

First, yeah.

Matt

Hi Ann

Matt

No I no.

Andy

OK, so here's what's happening like there's, and if you want more on this, I actually talk with Caleb yourself, Caleb Freedom and Doctor Halo frame.

Andy

And I have 45 minutes that I offer in this session where we talk through the all the Jewish sources that lead this. But essentially there was a Jewish document that existed that was called the Assumption of Moses that.

Andy

Details the fact that there was likely this moment where Michael the Archangel Michael and the devil disputed Satan's body, but here's the.

Andy

Point is that Michael was clearly in the right in this moment.

Andy

He could have done anything he wanted to to say, like he had the authority to say to say no, you're wrong in this situation, but instead, what is it that Michael does?

Andy

He says I'm going to lean on the Lord and not my own understanding.

Andy

He said, the Lord rebuke you.

Andy

He comes in this situation where he doesn't depend on his own experience, so it discipleship for us and as we're serving other people, we don't depend upon ourselves and said we rest in the judgment.

Andy

We less in the way that God has already revealed himself, so we say.

Andy

May the Lord rebuke you, and when there's problems in the world that we can't control, we're going to contend for them as best we can.

Andy

But ultimately, we depend upon the justice.

Matt

Of God wow so I love this because just on a very practical level there's some things that I mad freedom and can't do.

Matt

I can feel about them.

Matt

I can pay attention to them, but at the end of the day, there's not much I can do about it.

Matt

It's nice to know we get on a whole.

Andy

Higher plane.

Andy

That's a higher plane.

Matt

Yeah, you didn't say.

Matt

A word here.

Andy

I'm sorry, yeah.

Matt

So no flexibility is keeping it snatching a get on a higher plane and know that there is a God that has taken care.

Andy

Yeah, still the corn one.

Right?

Matt

Of business.

Andy

There's a higher truth than you, and so like we want to lend a higher plane, as I have found, Lord plant my feet on solid ground.

Matt

There's a song.

Andy

I know it sounds.

Andy

Yeah it doesn't.

Matt

That's very nice.

Matt

Yeah, OK, so you're doing great.

Andy

Right now it might not be going great.

Matt

Flexibility keeping, snatching get on that higher plane of truth and #5

Andy

No, right now you're gonna have to let me explain this.

Andy

Don't abuse angels.

Matt

No OK.

Andy

In the very same way, verse 8 on the strength of their dreams talking about these people who have secretly slept in these ungodly people, pollute their own bodies.

Andy

Reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beans.

Matt

Heap abuse on celestial beings.

Andy

Don't abuse Angel now.

Andy

We have to get back in that idea.

Andy

Of what Jude.

Andy

's audience would have thought about angels.

Andy

Down here I'm going to get I'm going to break this all down.

Andy

I do it in a long way.

Andy

In my recent study, which will be a book, hopefully in a few month.

Andy

As well.

Andy

Jewish, the Jewish understanding of angels, were they were the ones who delivered the law, delivered the written word to Moses.

Andy

And so you even see this in Stephen, like he in in.

Andy

2 Stephen in Acts 7 talk.

Andy

Like I acknowledge the fact that a new test.

Andy

My understanding is that the.

Andy

Law given to Moses came through angels.

Andy

So if that's the case, if angels delivered the law, and if these people are living as if God grace is a license to sin, they don't need the law, right?

Andy

They don't need any of the things that God has.

Andy

Already prescribed God written word that they can live by themselves.

Andy

Then the idea is that when we live outside of the.

Andy

Law, it's as if we are hurting, abusing the messenger, and the message itself.

Andy

Wow, so that that's kind of like I go into this in greater depth to explain this, but the idea is like if we are going to heap abuse, like if we're going to if we are going to move against God's law, it's like we're hurting angels. Wow.

Andy

So you live within God's law, so the idea is God has revealed himself clearly through the scriptures. The old New Testament. It's the divine rule of Christian faith and practice. So when we move against that law.

Andy

We're putting ourselves in a position where we are in grave.

Matt

Danger flexibility keeping snatching get on the higher plane and don't abuse angels.

Matt

And some of you thinking right now man, I just need some more teaching on that.

Andy

If you'd like.

Matt

And guess what, we have an opportunity for you.

To do that?

Matt

So tell him one more time.

Matt

Yeah, how they can plug into the.

Speaker 1

Right?

Matt

Andy Miller

Matt

Exit Jesus of the book.

Andy

Of Jude, that's right, so it's called contender. It's a six week study with a 25 to 30 minute lessons that are video based. And then you can.

Andy

You can get this for your small group your for your church as a whole and we walk through this.

Andy

And if you.

Andy

Think I went through it too fast.

Andy

I explain it in a little bit more lucid.

Andy

Way in the.

Matt

Well six week way yeah.

Andy

Six weeks so we have some time to walk through this and I think it's really powerful to help.

Andy

Must be contenders for our time, so it's going deeper in the book of Jude.

Andy

So thanks so much for letting.

Matt

Me plug that here man.

Matt

Always an honor to have you and I I like doing.

Matt

These joint podcasts you like these OK?

Andy

Yeah I do, I do I do.

Matt

You like it?

Matt

Yeah no.

Matt

I listen any exposure I can get to the more to the story podcast audience is a.

Matt

It's it's a boom of.

Matt

A day for.

Andy

Me and the.

Andy

Thing with Trent with disciples, what are you doing?

Matt

See, you don't even know.

Ha ha ha.

Andy

The name.

Andy

Have a paper Plumbeous life changing discipleship.

Matt

It's life changing.

Matt

Life life Changing discipleship podcast Andy and listen.

Matt