Seven Books Every Christian Should Read with Dr. John Oswalt

Dr. John Oswalt sits down with me to share seven books every Christian should read! These are the seven books that have had the most significant influence on his life. Check it out here:

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Transcript:

Andy
Here we are.
Andy
Kind of moving through this second year of the Mortgage Story podcast and I'm thankful to have the music that we had just ahead of this from Phil Laeger.
Andy
He wrote that for this podcast and you can find out more about Phil at legger.net. Or you can find the link in our show notes.
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So thankful for him and kind of the fun thing that he is able to do for us by creating this music.
Andy
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Of appreciation after we had our first year, I called for that on Facebook on Facebook and several people responded.
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Andy
Is Captain maybe Major Dave Marr?
Andy
Teen's, who maybe by the time we see this will be serving in Indiana, but he was in Michigan before that so really thankful to per Dave and him giving this little short testimonial. What the podcast is meant to him.
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Just want to make sure you know two, we have some resources coming your way, five steps to deeper teaching and preaching.
Andy
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You can get that.
Andy
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Andy
You'll be hearing more about that in the coming.
Andy
Days thanks so much for checking out this podcast.
Dave Martinez
Hey Andy and all your listeners, my name is David Martinez and my wife and I.
Dave Martinez
We currently Minister in the Salvation Army as core officers of the Dearborn Heights city before near Detroit, MI.
Dave Martinez
Now more to this story has become Shannon eyes.
Dave Martinez
One of our favorite podcasts.
Dave Martinez
One of our must listen to podcasts, and I've listened to them all over the last year.
Dave Martinez
We're so grateful that you are not.
Dave Martinez
Allowing the thalassies and.
Dave Martinez
The falsities that are infiltrating the church and the Salvation Army, specifically to go unchecked, and that you respond with realism with optimism, and which hope.
Dave Martinez
I think every next episode becomes my new favorite, but if I had to identify one above all, it would be your your interview with AWS pianist and specifically his line, faithful to whom that's such a simple solution if.
Dave Martinez
We would apply it.
Dave Martinez
Anyway, keep it up.
Dave Martinez
I need it, we need it.
Dave Martinez
Fight hard.
Dave Martinez
Don't give up.
Dave Martinez
God bless.
Andy
Welcome to the more to the story podcast.
Andy
I'm so glad that you've come along today.
Andy
I'm following up on a previous interview I did with Doctor John Oswalt, but I wanted to get him to answer some questions.
Andy
I asked him for the five.
Andy
Books the five books that he thinks every Christian should read beyond the Bible, and he gave me 7.
Andy
So here we go.
Andy
We're going to get there.
Andy
My thanks to WBS Wesley Biblical Center for sponsoring this podcast where we are training trusted leaders for faithful churches and to Bill Roberts, a financial planner who comes at that discipline from a Christian perspective, really particularly gifted.
Andy
And helping people who are in ministry dealing with tax laws and all kinds of things and housing allowances. You can find information from him at williamhroberts.com.
Andy
Doctor Oz well thanks for coming back to.
Andy
The podcast happy.
Andy
Too, so I asked you a question I asked, can you give five books you think every Christian should read?
Andy
So I'm going to go through those here and I I we're going down now.
Andy
Don't hold them to it folks, but I asked him to give it.
Andy
An order.
John Oswalt
Do you want to say something first?
John Oswalt
I do I do.
John Oswalt
I wouldn't say these are five books everybody should read.
Andy
OK, OK.
John Oswalt
These are books that influenced my.
John Oswalt
OK, 'cause you know I when you think of the.
John Oswalt
Millions of books that have been written.
John Oswalt
You know, for instance, someone would say Augustine confessions, sure sure, or Blaise Pascal's pensee.
Andy
Right?
John Oswalt
Some of these are are great books and but should every Christian really.
John Oswalt
I don't know.
Andy
OK.
John Oswalt
So what I've got to say is these are books that shaped my life.
Andy
Hey man, and really, there's probably 200 books that everybody should read, right? Yeah, at least hundreds, so we're not holding people to go.
Andy
Ahead document off, yeah?
John Oswalt
And I also I.
John Oswalt
I have been a great reader of fiction there.
Andy
OK.
John Oswalt
There are a lot of in fact, I'll I'll mention one.
John Oswalt
It's not on our list here, but I'll mention an author that has.
John Oswalt
My communication.
John Oswalt
How do you express things?
John Oswalt
How do you explain things and so so fiction has been a large part of my reading career?
Andy
Who's one of your the fiction authors that you?
Andy
Like the best well.
John Oswalt
It's someone I don't think anybody would probably know her name is.
John Oswalt
Elizabeth Goudge GOUDGE
Andy
OK.
John Oswalt
She she is dead now.
John Oswalt
She was a Christian and her books have a very distinct Christian flavor, but not in quite the evangelistic note.
John Oswalt
That some modern Christian books have.
John Oswalt
But but the Christian worldview breeze through them, and I'll.
John Oswalt
I'll talk about one of them.
John Oswalt
So I have.
John Oswalt
I have loved her book.
John Oswalt
Written about 20 and.
Andy
Wow, I love now when when I was at in seminary, my one of my favorite classes, actually the favorite class I ever taught took of any class with Ellsworth Kalas preaching class.
Andy
Ah, and he required in the preaching class to read a piece of fiction and then to write about it.
Andy
And then, right, like how you could use it, and that's always stuck with me.
Andy
It's like it's so easy to get caught up in.
Andy
Theological literature and commentaries.
Andy
But to know how people actually communicate and tell a story so important.
John Oswalt
Yes, yes, and and how to tell a story.
John Oswalt
Sorry how to how to use words that are colorful and grasping and you're not going to get.
John Oswalt
That in the.
Andy
Scholarly stuff well, and you do that, and you're preaching to.
Speaker 1
Please stop.
Andy
I mean, there's no doubt about it.
Andy
Like you have a sense of structure and storyline like where we're going down to the depths with you and you kind of bring us.
Andy
Up generally yeah yeah.
Andy
So yeah, every now and then like oh.
Andy
Man, yeah and.
Andy
Also, I've always loved the way that you are able to communicate dramatically like it's such a key thing.
Andy
So so if you like doctor alter preaching.
Andy
That means you probably should read some fiction.
Andy
Books, let's just throw that out there OK?
Andy
So we understand your provisio here and just bear with the fact that I have some clickbait in my Title 7, so the 7th book that you have, Amy Carmichael.
John Oswalt
OK.
John Oswalt
The edges of his ways.
John Oswalt
Amy Carmichael was a missionary in India in the early 20th century.
John Oswalt
She was a misfit.
John Oswalt
She just didn't fit into the standard missionary mode.
John Oswalt
And but she discovered that little unwanted Indian girls were sold to the temples to become temple prostitutes.
John Oswalt
And so she created an orphanage.
John Oswalt
And to save those girls, then she discovered the darker secret that little boys were sometimes sold as well.
John Oswalt
And so she developed when she was 51 years old. God, God, blessed the thing and it was gross.
John Oswalt
Being in a twilight evening, she was looking at some construction work and fell into a ditch that had not been covered.
John Oswalt
Broken ankle and they thought, well, she'd be in bed maybe for three weeks.
John Oswalt
She was in bed for the next 20 years.
John Oswalt
It went into arthritis in that 20 years.
John Oswalt
She wrote some 30 books, wow that are just overflowing with devotion to God, love for God, renunciation.
John Oswalt
And and that's edges of her ways is one of those of his ways.
John Oswalt
Is one of those books that speaks to that the reality of a life surrendered to.
Andy
Him not yet, and it's not necessarily biographical talking about her story, this one.
John Oswalt
No, not exactly no.
Andy
Sorry that this is one of the books on your list that I didn't know, so I'm glad to pick it up myself, yeah?
Andy
#6 on your list. Saint John of the cross.
John Oswalt
This was one that came to me out of the blue.
John Oswalt
A friend of mine at the seminary on the seminary faculty.
John Oswalt
We would sometimes trade books and and and try to do each other out.

OK.
John Oswalt
And one of the books that I traded that I received in a trade was Saint John of the Cross.
John Oswalt
Saint John of the Cross was a Catholic priest. I think Spanish in the 1500s. He was the spiritual director for a lot of nuns and a lot of the nuns would come to him saying God has left me when I first met him.
John Oswalt
He was so real.
John Oswalt
He was so precious.
John Oswalt
And now he's gone.
John Oswalt
It is darkness, and he counsels them.
John Oswalt
And and this again I was totally unprepared for this.
Speaker 1
He says.
John Oswalt
You were in love with the feeling of God, interesting.
John Oswalt
God has withdrawn to feelings.
John Oswalt
He has not withdrawn himself.
John Oswalt
Wow, do you love God or do you love the feeling of wow and that was that was really an eye opener for me?
John Oswalt
What is this about?
John Oswalt
Is this about my feelings?
John Oswalt
Or is it about his reality shaping my behavior?
Andy
That is beautiful.
Andy
From the 5th book you have had a similar impact on people and obviously impacted John Wesley as well.
Andy
Thomas, A Kempis is the imitation of Christ.
Andy
Yeah, so this this book you know well, I'll let you talk about it.
Andy
OK, it made a deep impression on me and I'm so thankful for it.
John Oswalt
Again, a Catholic monk who is really into this whole question of what does it mean to be a Christian?
John Oswalt
And I think I think so much of what is wrong with the Evangelical Church in North America is right here to be a Christian is to be forgiven of my sins and guaranteed.
John Oswalt
Place in heaven.
John Oswalt
Thomas a.
John Oswalt
Kempis says absolutely not.
John Oswalt
To be a Christian.
John Oswalt
Is to walk as Christ walked to walk with him, to walk in him and to replicate his life in your behavior.
Andy
Amen, yes.
Andy
Hey man, not some trend transactional.
Andy
How do I get in you let me in here please please please don't this is this is a dynamic relationship and this is like in my tradition.
Andy
We say we believe that we can have a continued.
Andy
Obedient faith in Christ is regular related.
John Oswalt
Yes, and it's it's been more and more a part of my preaching in recent years.
John Oswalt
Several years ago I looked at all the occurrences of walk in the Bible. OK, 3/4 of them refer to your behavior only one quarter to physical movement.
John Oswalt
So the whole thing and you go back, you go back to Genesis 17, one Abraham walk before me and be whole wow.
John Oswalt
King James will say perfect, Yep.
John Oswalt
Behold, but the term.
John Oswalt
Is what's used for a sacrificial lamb.
John Oswalt
And to give a sacrificial lamb, it has to be whole.
John Oswalt
You can't give a 3 legged lamb.
Andy
Yes, yes.
John Oswalt
You can't give a one eyed lamb.
John Oswalt
It has to be whole.
John Oswalt
Oh my.
John Oswalt
Can I walk with God?
John Oswalt
And become all that I was ever meant.
John Oswalt
To be.
Andy
Amen, now I heard you say at Indian Springs one time indeed Sprinklings Campmeeting.

That's it.
Andy
Well I'll be there next year and I've heard you from that pulpit many times.
Andy
But I believe you said there one time.
Andy
The word for discipleship in the Old Testament for discipleship is walk.
Andy
Yep, yeah, there's this regular sense of how we're move.
John Oswalt
I mean, when, when, and and.
John Oswalt
This is what Jesus said.
John Oswalt
He didn't say, come be my disciple, he said.
John Oswalt
Walk after.
Andy
Me follow me oh beautiful.
Andy
OK, so that's your that's number 5 #4 coming down to the great missionary Hudson Taylor.
John Oswalt
Yes, yes.
John Oswalt
Hudson Taylor was called to be a missionary he went to and founded China Inland Mission.
John Oswalt
He really pioneered dressing like the Chinese, not looking like a European but looking like the Chinese.
John Oswalt
But he came to the very end of himself.
John Oswalt
He was worn out, he was broken.
John Oswalt
Didn't know how to go on.
John Oswalt
And his sister wrote to him from England and said, I've come across this him.
John Oswalt
It says Jesus I am resting, resting in the joy of what thou art daily, finding out the greatness of thy loving heart.
John Oswalt
Hudson, perhaps you need to rest.
John Oswalt
And that was his spiritual secret.
John Oswalt
The spiritual secret of letting go of his efforts of his struggles of his attempts to be something or somebody, and to genuinely allow Christ to reproduce himself in him through rest.
Andy
You know when the passages that I've I've struggled.
Andy
Understand it to interpret throughout the years, and I think.
Andy
It's like the challenge that the spirit has for me for my life is Hebrews 4.
Andy
You know the they shall not enter my rest, right?
Andy
And and there's this this image that draws us back, you know, to the people of Israel and the the the promised land, being the place of rest.
Andy
I I say that because I tried to preach a sermon on.
Andy
This long time.
Andy
I say try and Ellsworth Kalas.
Andy
I mentioned earlier said to me.
Andy
He said after I preached it and he evaluated me.
Andy
Well, I tried to preach a sermon and Hebrews 4 as well one time and I decided it's too hard.
Andy
Maybe you said to Andy.
Andy
Now I say that as a way of thank you Doctor Callis and in Glory I still still honor you.
Andy
But I think the idea is like there's something about that it's it's so mysterious and important like it's not something to shy away from.
John Oswalt
Yo yeah.
John Oswalt
And yeah.
Andy
He wasn't saying don't ever look at this again, but it's almost too deep for me to get.
Andy
That here, here's this person who goes to China, and the still senses God.
Andy
Call to rest you want to.
Andy
Add to that, yeah.
John Oswalt
Forgive me, but I think it's especially hard for a Salvation Army.
Speaker 1
Ha ha ha.
John Oswalt
For whom work?
Speaker 1
Right?
John Oswalt
Yeah, work to the work.
Andy
Right, right to the fight.
Andy
Yeah yeah I know forward to the fight that's why my my slogan used to be.
John Oswalt
Yeah, this is.
John Oswalt
A story from the life of E Stanley Jones, famous missionary to India.
John Oswalt
He had very.
John Oswalt
Similar to this, though not the same wording.
John Oswalt
He was there for five years.
John Oswalt
I think it was and suffered a nervous breakdown.
Andy
Yeah, yeah.
John Oswalt
He came back to the United States to recover.
John Oswalt
Went back to India and in a few weeks was in the same place.
John Oswalt
And as he tells it.
John Oswalt
He was lying on the floor in the back of a church in Calcutta, saying, God, it is over.
John Oswalt
I cannot go on.
John Oswalt
I am broken.
John Oswalt
It's too much and he says God said to me, Stanley.
John Oswalt
If you'll give me your all.
John Oswalt
I'll give you my all Amen and he says I sealed the deal on the spot and had been hugging myself ever since for being so smart.
Andy
Hey man.
John Oswalt
It's it's the same.
John Oswalt
It's the same principle.
Andy
Write this, reciprocate for him.
John Oswalt
Stop trying to do it yourself.
John Oswalt
Hey men, stop trying to do my work for me and let me do my work through you.
Andy
I mean, this is an emphasis, I think in your in the last podcast we had, we talked about the Bible amongst yeah.

Give it.
Andy
So I mean, this is the same thing like trying to say we create our own reality.
Andy
You know it's something that comes from outside of us.
Andy
OK, I'm going to move us on #3 mere Christianity by by easy cineleisure by CS Lewis.
John Oswalt
This is one book for every Christian Church.
Andy
There you go.
Andy
Thank you, thank you.
Andy
OK, there is one of them.
John Oswalt
And I say that because.
John Oswalt
It's rather like the Bible in that the simplest person can read it and get the sense of.
John Oswalt
But, and the most profound person will be challenged by it.
John Oswalt
That's that's a remarkable piece of writing.
Andy
Yeah yes yes.
John Oswalt
That's a remarkable piece of writing, so that there he really.
John Oswalt
And of course, we don't use Mir the same way that it used to be.
John Oswalt
What he means is.
John Oswalt
Basic right right simplest.
John Oswalt
And and this is what Christianity is at its core, and so he walks us right through in again.
John Oswalt
Very simple and yet very profound language.
John Oswalt
I mean.
John Oswalt
A statement like to be fully human.
John Oswalt
Is to have your passions in the control of your will and your will in the control of God.
Speaker 1
Me me.
John Oswalt
That's to be fully human.
John Oswalt
Those kinds of statements that just those Nuggets that jump.
John Oswalt
Out at you throughout.
John Oswalt
So I suppose I've read it three times and.
John Oswalt
Every time again I'm AM Oh yeah, yeah.
John Oswalt
That's right.
Andy
I mean, for all the way down from like kind of the moral law arguments for God's.
Andy
Yeah yeah, the existent basic apologetics questions, but also spiritual questions.
Andy
Yeah, oh I love it.
Andy
OK number 2 the shadow of the Almighty.
John Oswalt
I have heard I I don't. I don't know the basis for it, but I've heard that between 1958 and 1962 some 6000 missionaries were sent out because of the influence of the five who died in Ecuador.
John Oswalt
Jim Elliot was one of those five.
John Oswalt
The the picture of his body floating in the.
John Oswalt
Whatever the name of that movie, I don't think it's the Amazon, it's it's a feeder of the Amazon with a spear sticking in his back.
Andy
Amazonrivernot.net
John Oswalt
So his wife Elizabeth Elliott wrote his biography and it was especially impressive to me as a college student because it really is the the life story of a young man who is choosing to live for Christ.
John Oswalt
And it's from that book.
John Oswalt
And which is from his diary, that the line comes.
John Oswalt
He is no fool.
John Oswalt
Who gives his life?
John Oswalt
To gain what he can never lose.
Andy
Hey man, yeah and.
John Oswalt
So that simply the story and you know and he was.
John Oswalt
It was not a wimp, it was a man man, uh?
John Oswalt
The example of that kind of flat out living just.
John Oswalt
Shaped all my thinking wow.
Andy
Did you ever interact with Elisabeth Elliot?
John Oswalt
Once or twice OK, but only sort of in passing.
John Oswalt
We were.
John Oswalt
We were together at a dinner table, OK?
John Oswalt
I told her that at the time, yeah.
Andy
What a blessing? Well, we're going to get to #1 here.
Andy
Doctor John holds Walter most influential books on his life, and I say a book you should probably read then too.
Andy
But before I do that, you go to my website and sign up for my e-mail list and you can get a quick tool that I think will be really helpful to you.
Andy
It's not a quick process, it really means getting into scripture.
Andy
In a kind of more full way and it's 5 tips to deeper teaching and preaching.
Andy
And what this is a 45 minute teaching for me and a five page PDF document that I think you'll find really helpful.
Andy
But I I just say that because we want to go deeper here, we want to have a deeper expression of our faith and we're getting more to the story.
Andy
And one of the books, Doctor Roosevelt, that has LED you to a deeper life and the number one book.
Andy
On your list, Oswald Chamberlain's Chambers, my utmost for his highest.
John Oswalt
This of course is a selection from his sermons made by his wife.
John Oswalt
A amazing story his wife had learned shorthand.
John Oswalt
Oswald Chambers never wrote.
Andy
A book, wow.
John Oswalt
She took down every one of his messages by shorthand.
John Oswalt
And when he died in Egypt at age 44 of fever during the First World War.
John Oswalt
She then published his messages.
John Oswalt
Every book by Oswald Chambers is the result of his.
John Oswalt
Wife's work.
John Oswalt
And then she selected from his sermons what she felt were the Nuggets, and they have been.
John Oswalt
Printed as my utmost for his highest.
John Oswalt
So far as I know, this continues.
John Oswalt
To be the.
John Oswalt
Best selling devotional book in the world.
John Oswalt
The next one, after it is one of our own streams in the desert by Lettie Coleman from the Oriental Missionary Society.
Andy
Right, right, right.
John Oswalt
OMS Society, now one mission society.
John Oswalt
I always liken Oswald Chambers to a cold shower.
Andy
Haha he beats you up in the morning.
Andy
That's how I feel if.
Andy
You read him in the morning, yeah?
John Oswalt
Exactly exactly, I mean it's you can feel real good about yourself.
John Oswalt
And then he describes.
John Oswalt
And again again one of his lines that I've never gotten over.
John Oswalt
Sin may express itself.
John Oswalt
In indecorous immorality.
John Oswalt
Or decorous morality.
John Oswalt
But it is the same thing.
John Oswalt
My right to myself.
Andy
Decorous morality, what would that be helped me that that's when I often I'll sit there with the Stanley Jones, alright, oh sorry with I do read Stanley Jones too without salt chambers and boy I am working through I'm trying to figure out help.
Speaker 1
OK.
John Oswalt
Me there decorous is the same route as decorative.
Andy
OK, right, right, right right.
John Oswalt
Pretty decorous morality, pretty nice.
John Oswalt
Beautiful morality or indecorous ugly, nasty immoral.

Right, sure.
Andy
But either way it's the same thing.
Dave Martinez
But root.
John Oswalt
Is the same thing my right to myself?
Andy
So how?
Andy
How often have you?
Andy
How often have you devotional?
Andy
Oh, do you do it every day or just like every so every like take a year and you do it?
John Oswalt
No no no no no I I.
John Oswalt
Use a different devotional book every year, OK?
John Oswalt
Uh, I've probably gone through it four or five times in my life.
Andy
OK, yeah.
John Oswalt
And then of course, there's Dennis Kinlaw this day with the master, right?
John Oswalt
Go through that every three or four.
John Oswalt
I also found one that in in some ways when I look at I've got a little notebook where I write notes on stuff that I've thought about or read about, and I look at the notes.
John Oswalt
FB Meyer
Andy
OK.
John Oswalt
Baptist pastor of in the Keswick movement in England. In the in the 1800s. I forget what his first name is Featherston and the second name is also equally horrible. I see why he went by FB. Yeah, sure, absolutely.
Andy
Yeah, yeah.
John Oswalt
He has a set called our Daily Homily.
John Oswalt
OK, where he does one thought for each chapter of the Bible.
John Oswalt
Profound, so I've gone through that one, two or three times as well.
Andy
I love I love hearing about these daily practices that.
John Oswalt
You have and then then.
John Oswalt
Not quite as commonly as my are, but but several times I've done one of Stanley Jones is devotional books.
Andy
Right, here's many of those.
Andy
So I yeah, I I have had a decade of doing doing those and they repeat themselves a little bit, but very intense and very deep and also fed my preaching in my own spiritual life.
Andy
And as has Oswald Chambers.
Andy
I remember I got it when I became a Salvation Army soldier at 14.
Andy
My grandfather handed me one that was a great blessing.
Andy
Well, thank you so much for staying now.
Andy
I want to highlight to you have a blog right where you regularly post.
Andy
Is it every week?
Andy
Do you post OK?
John Oswalt
Once a week once.
Andy
So some thoughts, some things going on in culture and biblical reflections as well.
John Oswalt
Yeah, it's it's it will the design is it will appear as a devotional book, OK?
John Oswalt
On 300.
John Oswalt
16 Now I think so another year.
Andy
OK, what's it?
Andy
What's your blog?
Andy
What's it?
John Oswalt
The blog is one word called to be transformed.net.
Andy
OK OK great.
John Oswalt
And and can you can.
Andy
Well thank you for doing that.
John Oswalt
Hit a button there and it will be sent to your e-mail.
Andy
Great, well I'm so glad that we have that and we'll make sure to include that in our show notes so people can go and do that really quickly.
Andy
Doctor Oswalt, it means so much to me and spend some time with me today.
John Oswalt
Thank you.
Andy
Thanks for sharing this list with us and spending so much time.
John Oswalt
Thank you privileged.
Andy
God bless you.
Andy
Thanks for joining us on the more to this story podcast.
Andy
We'll see you next time.