Top Ten Holiness Book with Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer
March 31 2022
There are a host of outstanding resources in the Wesleyan holiness tradition. Chris Lohrstorfer and I attempted to boil down a top ten list of books in the holiness tradition. You can find a link to this podcast here.
Here’s our list and links you can find to these books:
10. Chris Lohrstorfer, Learning to Breathe
9. Kevin Watson, Perfect Love
8. Andrew Murray, Be Perfect
7. Keith Drury, Holiness for Ordinary People
6. Timothy Tennent, The Call to Holiness
5. John Oswalt, Called to Be Holy
4. John Waldron, The Privilege of All Believers
3. Dennis Kinlaw, Let's Start with Jesus
2. Samuel Logan Brengle, The Guest of the Soul
1. John Wesley, Scripture Way of Salvation
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And I am delighted today to have on the podcast with me Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer, Chris, welcome to podcasts.
00:01:34 Chris L.
00:01:36 Andy Miller III
And so Chris is our professor of Wesley Studies here and we have a lot of good conversations in the hallway and I thought you know what?
00:01:43 Andy Miller III
Let's just see let's just put if I developed a top five list and you developed a top five list of Holiness later.
00:01:50 Andy Miller III
Could we actually agree upon like #1 and all that says that we?
00:01:53 Andy Miller III
Did and here we.
00:01:54 Andy Miller III
Are we got it so Chris, tell us just a little bit about yourself before we get started.
00:01:58 Chris L.
Well, let's see. I've been a pastor for 30 something years. I've been 25 years at my church where I presently serve in Raymond, Ms.
00:02:05 Andy Miller III
OK, and you're originally from Indiana.
00:02:07 Chris L.
Course well great.
00:02:07 Andy Miller III
Here we got the best people from Indiana.
00:02:10 Andy Miller III
So anything else you want to add there?
00:02:11 Chris L.
I've been teaching for 30 years as well college and seminary.
00:02:16 Andy Miller III
00:02:16 Chris L.
Been here 11 years at WBZ right.
00:02:18 Andy Miller III
Right, we're so glad that you are here and and look in and you did your doctoral research on John Wesley theology right to looking at his doctrine of sin.
00:02:24 Chris L.
Correct, Yep, original sin looked at his sources for his doctor.
00:02:29 Chris L.
00:02:30 Andy Miller III
That's the shortest I've ever heard.
00:02:32 Andy Miller III
You say that 'cause it's very intense.
00:02:34 Andy Miller III
Yeah, so we can.
00:02:34 Andy Miller III
We can refer you to some resources about that soon.
00:02:37 Andy Miller III
OK number 10 our list and I'm going to go ahead and push this through taking.
00:02:40 Andy Miller III
My prerogative as.
00:02:41 Andy Miller III
A host of podcast.
00:02:43 Andy Miller III
Your book learning to breathe, mastering the art of spiritual respiration.
00:02:47 Andy Miller III
Christy give a little summary this.
00:02:49 Andy Miller III
This is why people.
00:02:50 Andy Miller III
We are interested in a top ten list on holiness literature, right?
00:02:52 Andy Miller III
Book would be helpful to him.
00:02:54 Chris L.
Now this book does something that no other book I've found actually does. So. John Wesley concept of spiritual respiration is that you find ways to breathe in God's grace every day and breathe out. God, great. It's really about intimacy. This is how to do the intimate life with God, but it's connected.
00:02:58 Andy Miller III
00:03:14 Chris L.
To holiness in the sense that when Wesley talks about how to be Sanctus.
00:03:19 Chris L.
He says basically a person needs to be involved in the works of piety and works of mercy, and that's involved in the spiritual respiration.
00:03:24 Speaker 1
00:03:28 Chris L.
So the 2GO hand in hand because he says about about works of mercy and works of piety, that if you're not doing those things, you can't even stay where you are spiritually, let alone move forward. And he said, it's.
00:03:39 Chris L.
Those are absolutely necessary for sanctification.
00:03:42 Chris L.
00:03:43 Chris L.
I don't hear people saying that, but that this book tells people how to be intimate with God and how to walk in that journey towards sanctification.
00:03:49 Andy Miller III
That's great, you know.
00:03:50 Andy Miller III
One things we emphasize in.
00:03:52 Andy Miller III
We had the top ten discipleship books and that same theme.
00:03:55 Andy Miller III
It works up hiding works of mercy.
00:03:56 Andy Miller III
And that's something we've actually built.
00:03:58 Andy Miller III
Put in to our curriculum here and you were part of shaping that before I ever got here to think about how we are making sure that we have opportunities for people to practice these things. So check out learning to breathe number 10 now, #9.
00:04:10 Andy Miller III
Former guests on my podcast Kevin Watson brand new book Nam.
00:04:14 Andy Miller III
I was a little hesitant to put a new book on the list.
00:04:17 Andy Miller III
Most of them are well over 100 years old, right? But his new book, that Seabed published Perfect, loved recovering entire sanctification. The lost power of the Methodist movement. What do you think of this?
00:04:30 Chris L.
Book, Oh yeah, it's it's.
00:04:31 Chris L.
It's a pretty good book.
00:04:32 Chris L.
I like it.
00:04:32 Chris L.
00:04:33 Chris L.
His hair, yeah, let's get going here.
00:04:34 Speaker 1
Ha ha ha ha.
00:04:35 Chris L.
But the book the book is it's good.
00:04:37 Andy Miller III
Well, you know and and he walks through this in a in a really clear way.
00:04:41 Andy Miller III
It's not in an academic book I did endorse.
00:04:44 Andy Miller III
I was looking for my endorsement, but this is the kind of advanced sale copy.
00:04:48 Andy Miller III
But I mean, I felt like this is a very clear explanation explanation.
00:04:52 Andy Miller III
And one thing I like that he highlights and you can go back to my podcast where I talked to Kevin Watson.
00:04:57 Andy Miller III
I think you'll find that.
00:04:58 Andy Miller III
Interesting about this book.
00:04:59 Andy Miller III
We probably had an hour long disc.
00:05:00 Andy Miller III
Question about it, but he takes from one of John Wesley's sermons. A few words that holiness is love eliminating sin, yeah, and those three words are, I think, now some people might say the best definition of holiness is christlikeness. It's one word, three word. And now I think that that could be problematic, actually, but love.
00:05:15 Speaker 1
00:05:21 Andy Miller III
Eliminating sin, this kind of where does love come from?
00:05:24 Andy Miller III
That God is love?
00:05:25 Andy Miller III
God exists as three persons always in a relationship, father, son, Holy Spirit, love, love it, love that love that we share in union in in relationship with the father.
00:05:34 Andy Miller III
00:05:35 Andy Miller III
And eliminating scenario life.
00:05:38 Chris L.
And more specifically, Wesley said, love expelling sandwiches?
00:05:42 Chris L.
How it's eliminated?
00:05:43 Chris L.
I mean, he just put a more a more moderate word shift, but the words actually expelling, and he describes it as almost like you've got so much love in there.
00:05:43 Andy Miller III
00:05:45 Andy Miller III
00:05:52 Chris L.
There's no room for anything else because it's just got.
00:05:55 Chris L.
Moved out, it's moved out.
00:05:56 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:05:58 Andy Miller III
And in thinking about sin is an important thing, because that's often the main objection people have to holiness theology in general is they think, oh, you are a bunch of sinless perfection.
00:06:03 Speaker 1
00:06:06 Andy Miller III
People you think this is your your perfect?
00:06:06 Speaker 1
00:06:08 Andy Miller III
Right perfect love like.
00:06:09 Andy Miller III
What's this about?
00:06:10 Andy Miller III
But the idea with what we think about with Christian perfection.
00:06:13 Andy Miller III
And we think about sin, like the kind of Wesley's do you use of the word sin. He thinks at any area of our life.
00:06:21 Andy Miller III
I'm sorry, he says, uh, a willful transgression to known law of God is, is that right?
00:06:26 Andy Miller III
Accurate is that.
00:06:27 Chris L.
Yeah yeah he.
00:06:28 Chris L.
Says send properly so called there's there's multiple.
00:06:31 Chris L.
Avenues, I mean angles of sin which wouldn't fit into that necessarily there.
00:06:36 Andy Miller III
00:06:36 Chris L.
There are other angles, but he calls it sin properly, so called quoting from Richard Lucas the book Inquiry query.
00:06:44 Chris L.
After happiness, his mother favorite devotional book, which Leslie read this whole life, that that's quoting that when he uses the word sin.
00:06:45 Andy Miller III
00:06:51 Chris L.
Properly so called 'cause that's exactly how Lucas said.
00:06:55 Chris L.
So yeah, he when he's talking about sin, that can be eliminated from your life.
00:06:58 Chris L.
It's not mistakes or sins of ignorance or fallenness itself necessarily, but that willful transgression.
00:07:04 Andy Miller III
00:07:07 Chris L.
That is something that's a choice.
00:07:10 Andy Miller III
Knowing you're doing something wrong, knowing that this is what God wants for you and you choose to do the opposite.
00:07:11 Chris L.
Yeah, that's right.
00:07:13 Chris L.
Yeah right, that is unnecessary.
00:07:16 Andy Miller III
Yeah, I like I, I think that's a helpful and it's that type of sin that we have the opportunity to be freed from or that can speak spelled from our life.
00:07:24 Chris L.
Yeah, that's right.
00:07:25 Andy Miller III
So that was one of the great takeaways for me.
00:07:27 Andy Miller III
00:07:28 Andy Miller III
Look, you want to emphasize to we want to be perfect here.
00:07:32 Andy Miller III
It is perfect love, be perfect by Andrew Murray tell.
00:07:34 Chris L.
Me about this.
00:07:35 Chris L.
OK so Andrew Murray.
00:07:36 Chris L.
What I like about this book and I I read this early in my Christian life.
00:07:40 Chris L.
00:07:41 Chris L.
There basically says when you see the word perfect in Scripture, we immediately start making excuses, but he said rather.
00:07:45 Chris L.
Than make excuses.
00:07:47 Chris L.
Let's find out what the word means.
00:07:49 Chris L.
And he takes you through various places where it's used and you get to see the biblical use of the word.
00:07:55 Chris L.
For instance Matthew 548, what does he mean? Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Obviously the context of that is love again actually, and so he takes you through biblical passages and shows you the.
00:08:09 Chris L.
The actual meaning of the word and not our kind of drummed up thing that we repel whenever we hear the word perfect.
00:08:16 Chris L.
We think, well, I can't be without mistake and my performance will never be.
00:08:20 Chris L.
That's not what he's talking about at all.
00:08:21 Andy Miller III
00:08:21 Chris L.
So anyway, I love the book.
00:08:23 Chris L.
It's very scripture.
00:08:24 Chris L.
So look devotional level, of course.
00:08:24 Andy Miller III
Yeah, yeah Andrew Murray.
00:08:27 Andy Miller III
I mean in general like his books on prayer and in this book too.
00:08:30 Andy Miller III
Just highly recommend this when when do you know anything about the history of Andrew Murray?
00:08:33 Chris L.
Yeah, late 1800s he was South African I believe right? He was he's Keswick. He's not not Wesleyan per southeast but falls into the Holiness tradition through the Keswick.
00:08:38 Andy Miller III
00:08:40 Andy Miller III
00:08:46 Andy Miller III
So tell me like what?
00:08:47 Andy Miller III
What help help me understand then a little better the difference in Keswick and Wesleyan views I.
00:08:52 Chris L.
In the Wesleyan movement, we would stress a little more the cleansing of your nature, whereas in the Keswick movement they understand that you can be victorious over.
00:09:03 Chris L.
But it's almost like some people call it suppression ISM, you know, like you suppress it somewhat, but but his he would say God gives you the victory over that nature, not so much a look at a cleansing of the nature, but victory over the nature.
00:09:08 Andy Miller III
Right, right OK?
00:09:21 Andy Miller III
So that's distinct in in Wesley Sermon, and we're gonna bring up John Wesley a lot.
00:09:25 Andy Miller III
Don't worry, we're going to get there.
00:09:26 Andy Miller III
But on sinning, believers like that that case where he makes.
00:09:28 Speaker 1
00:09:30 Andy Miller III
And this was helpful for me, that in justification that we are freed from the guilt of sin.
00:09:35 Andy Miller III
But in regeneration a new birth.
00:09:37 Andy Miller III
We are freed from the power thing right as an entire sanctification were freed from the being of sin, yes, so in that sense, like the Keswick movement might not emphasize that side, right?
00:09:50 Chris L.
Wouldn't go that far.
00:09:51 Chris L.
Yeah, it doesn't go quite as far as the Western.
00:09:53 Andy Miller III
Now, is this something that this might be a good time for us to talk about?
00:09:56 Andy Miller III
The distinction between?
00:09:56 Andy Miller III
Sometimes what people call the long way, the middle way and the short way.
00:10:00 Andy Miller III
Tell us like what that what those distinctions are?
00:10:03 Chris L.
So if you're thinking about how sanctification works, how is a person sanctified?
00:10:10 Chris L.
There have been three basic ways in the Wesleyan movement that that's been described the long way.
00:10:16 Chris L.
Let me start there.
00:10:17 Chris L.
Yeah, basically says you're always progressing in sanctification.
00:10:20 Chris L.
As a Christian, you probably won't reach it until maybe right at death or maybe even in glorification.
00:10:27 Chris L.
But most people and some people could but.
00:10:29 Chris L.
Most people in this life would not come to a place we would call entire sanctified.
00:10:33 Chris L.
00:10:34 Chris L.
It's always kind of progressing there, but never really reaching always.
00:10:38 Chris L.
I call it being sanctified, but not sanctified.
00:10:40 Chris L.
00:10:41 Andy Miller III
Gotcha and so then the short way is kind of like maybe part of my tradition had a lot of this like kind of like a name it and claim it that when you bring yourself to the altar you you then in popularized through Phoebe Palmer's writings.
00:10:53 Andy Miller III
00:10:53 Andy Miller III
That you have this sense that you come is hence is altar theology.
00:10:54 Chris L.
00:10:57 Andy Miller III
You come in, and you can almost name it and claim it that you have the opportunity to experience it.
00:11:01 Chris L.
Anything consecrated to God he will sanctify and immediately, so there's a guarantee that it's immediate.
00:11:04 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:11:10 Andy Miller III
So that's why this is the short way, right?
00:11:12 Chris L.
Yeah, it's called short.
00:11:12 Andy Miller III
And it's like almost like a method like you do certain things to make this happen.
00:11:14 Chris L.
Right, yes you could.
00:11:16 Chris L.
And and Phoebe Palmer really developed that because of her own struggle over the years, she just didn't want people to have that.
00:11:21 Chris L.
Struggle, which sounds good, but have you ever heard the thing about the?
00:11:25 Chris L.
You know the butterfly and the cocoon?
00:11:26 Chris L.
You know the boy sees that struggling to get out and so he cuts it but the thing dies because it didn't really grow its wings properly because the struggles necessary.
00:11:32 Andy Miller III
00:11:32 Andy Miller III
00:11:34 Andy Miller III
Wow, and so that leads us to the middle way.
00:11:36 Andy Miller III
Yeah, so we have the the long way the short way and the middle.
00:11:39 Andy Miller III
What is the middle way, Chris?
00:11:40 Chris L.
Middleway says that sanctification begins at.
00:11:45 Chris L.
Initial salvation when you're saved, you get all the Holy Spirit he just didn't get all of.
00:11:47 Andy Miller III
Yes yes yes.
00:11:48 Andy Miller III
Right Amen right?
00:11:50 Chris L.
You and God then leads you into a time of dying to self.
00:11:56 Chris L.
And it's it's a response to his grace and to his leading.
00:11:59 Chris L.
And he he actually, Wesley says.
00:12:01 Chris L.
He empowers you to mortify the deeds of the body.
00:12:06 Chris L.
So God God begins to empower you to die to self and at the end of that process of dying to self and it could take depending on you.
00:12:15 Chris L.
But at the end of that process, when you are.
00:12:18 Chris L.
Fully, you have fully died and you have fully laid out before God.
00:12:22 Chris L.
And you're doing the things he says.
00:12:24 Chris L.
You know those things you have to do right works, piety works, mercy, and you wait, he says.
00:12:25 Andy Miller III
Active mercy active piety yeah.
00:12:29 Chris L.
That's how God called for us to wait until he does it right now.
00:12:30 Andy Miller III
This is the key thing, right?
00:12:35 Chris L.
He does it in one of two ways at this point.
00:12:39 Chris L.
00:12:40 Chris L.
Actually, so that a person couldn't necessarily say this as the day it occurred.
00:12:44 Chris L.
Right, but oftentimes instantaneously, after all this process, when you can actually say yes, this is the day.
00:12:53 Chris L.
This is the time.
00:12:54 Andy Miller III
00:12:54 Chris L.
So all that happens after you've died to self though and you wait and God does it on his timing.
00:13:00 Andy Miller III
Then if you if that went by too fast, go back and listen to.
00:13:04 Andy Miller III
It again or.
00:13:05 Andy Miller III
Audit our class.
00:13:07 Andy Miller III
Yeah, biblical basis for holiness at Western Biblical seminary we we talk about this.
00:13:09 Andy Miller III
Yeah, that's right.
00:13:10 Andy Miller III
We will look at several of these books as America.
00:13:12 Andy Miller III
OK, that was a little bit of a S.
00:13:14 Andy Miller III
Curses for us, but I think you'll help us understand the next few books too as we go through.
00:13:18 Andy Miller III
So we have 10.
00:13:20 Andy Miller III
Learning to breathe 9 perfect love, 8 be perfect.
00:13:24 Andy Miller III
And I decided to throw in their holiness for everyday people by Keith Drury.
00:13:29 Chris L.
It's been very.
00:13:29 Andy Miller III
Now I don't know him.
00:13:30 Chris L.
So I I know him somewhat.
00:13:30 Andy Miller III
Yeah, it's great.
00:13:31 Andy Miller III
Oh you do.
00:13:32 Andy Miller III
00:13:32 Chris L.
Yeah, he may not know my name.
00:13:33 Andy Miller III
But I I know him well.
00:13:34 Andy Miller III
This is a book that has been out for a long time and I just feel like if you're going to explain to people he's published by Wesleyan.
00:13:39 Andy Miller III
Publishing house, you're going to explain to people what this language is.
00:13:43 Andy Miller III
That somewhat is somewhat antiquated and hard to access.
00:13:45 Andy Miller III
It's just an outstanding writer who's able to work through things in a clear way.
00:13:50 Andy Miller III
Clear definitions of sin, taking the biblical imagery in place and just giving people ways to think about.
00:13:55 Andy Miller III
And he also identifies that kind of long way middle a short way.
00:13:58 Chris L.
Correct, yeah, a lot of people have read this.
00:13:58 Andy Miller III
Pete Center too, so.
00:14:00 Chris L.
It's it's one of the more well read Holiness books in the West movie.
00:14:03 Andy Miller III
So in my tradition, a lot of people would emphasize, you know, certain folks within our Trisha. I actually bought 25 of these.
00:14:11 Andy Miller III
I'd have 25 on my desk or in my bookcase all time so I can give it out to people. This is one of the books that I do that with.
00:14:17 Andy Miller III
00:14:18 Andy Miller III
00:14:19 Chris L.
Maybe someday you'll do that with.
00:14:20 Chris L.
My book too.
00:14:21 Andy Miller III
Oh, I'm sorry. Once again, once it moves up to #6.
00:14:23 Chris L.
Yeah, if he moves up there you go.
00:14:25 Andy Miller III
OK, so we're at that. That was number OK where I'm at ten 9876. Yeah, this book is written now.
00:14:34 Andy Miller III
This is a little bitty book.
00:14:35 Andy Miller III
It's hardly even a just more of a message, but it's the call to holiness by Tim tenant pursuing the heart of God for the love of the world.
00:14:43 Andy Miller III
Now I I wanted to bring some books.
00:14:45 Andy Miller III
Here I did.
00:14:45 Andy Miller III
We didn't want to necessarily bring academic books to play, so some of these have academic foundation.
00:14:49 Andy Miller III
But this is just a clear description that John Wesley has talking through some of these challenges that come with thinking about the.
00:14:57 Andy Miller III
He has kind of a couple of key moves that he describes, like there's the move to be freed from sin.
00:15:03 Andy Miller III
But then the thing that he adds that I think is so helpful is also to be enabled for service in the world.
00:15:10 Andy Miller III
That holiness doesn't exist just for me and myself, but it's this call to move into the world.
00:15:14 Andy Miller III
And so Tim tenant has been on my podcast.
00:15:16 Andy Miller III
He's, uh, he's president, it's very.
00:15:16 Chris L.
Easy reading that's easy to read.
00:15:18 Andy Miller III
00:15:19 Andy Miller III
There, and it's nice.
00:15:20 Andy Miller III
You can probably read this in less than an hour.
00:15:21 Andy Miller III
Yeah, so I recommend if you're wanting to know or talk about and I'm making it high up on that list, OK?
00:15:28 Andy Miller III
Number five, I want you to introduce.
00:15:30 Chris L.
This one to us.
00:15:30 Chris L.
Yeah called to be holy about John Oswalt.
00:15:32 Chris L.
Again, very influential it.
00:15:34 Chris L.
This is somewhat academic, but not.
00:15:36 Chris L.
It's not over.
00:15:37 Chris L.
It's not overly academic.
00:15:40 Chris L.
The coast Dr.
00:15:41 Chris L.
Oswalt is an Old Testament history, and so he goes into the into the ancient Near eastern concept of holiness and shows how it differs in Israel and walks you through that Old Testament concept.
00:15:55 Chris L.
Act of Holiness and goes somewhat into the new.
00:15:58 Andy Miller III
Testament as well, and this is published by Francis Asbury Society.
00:16:01 Andy Miller III
But one thing that's unique about this is there aren't as many works that exist that are a biblical exegetic o'll approach towards the doctrine sanctification.
00:16:08 Speaker 1
And that's very difficult.
00:16:09 Andy Miller III
Now, it's not like any of the things that we do when you and I preach, or even in your learning to breathe.
00:16:13 Andy Miller III
I'm sure it's biblically focused, but this is.
00:16:15 Andy Miller III
A biblical scholar and you and I would be historical theologians, and so, like we kind of come at things a little differently.
00:16:16 Chris L.
00:16:16 Andy Miller III
00:16:21 Andy Miller III
But having a biblical style are just now interesting enough.
00:16:24 Andy Miller III
There is another work coming out.
00:16:25 Andy Miller III
I think our own President Matt errors and along with Caleb Freedom in our.
00:16:28 Andy Miller III
But now in a book I think Chris Bounds is a part.
00:16:30 Andy Miller III
Two, that's going to be working through Old Testament New Testament systematic perspective so called to be.
00:16:35 Andy Miller III
Holy and let's see.
00:16:38 Andy Miller III
Why don't you go ahead?
00:16:39 Andy Miller III
We have two.
00:16:39 Andy Miller III
Copies here copies.
00:16:41 Chris L.
Yeah, so the privilege of all believers is a collection of essays.
00:16:45 Chris L.
All Salvation Army.
00:16:47 Andy Miller III
It's true, yeah, yeah.
00:16:47 Chris L.
Coincidentally, this was very influential in my own development.
00:16:52 Chris L.
Because I was looking for something that could help me and I came across this written in 1980. This was like yeah, well it wasn't.
00:16:59 Andy Miller III
Great year to be born by the way, yeah.
00:17:01 Chris L.
Oh man, I don't know.
00:17:02 Chris L.
I was 16 at the time, but my copy I I loaned it to a student who left it in their trunk and it flooded and it was actually floating in their trust.
00:17:10 Andy Miller III
His show trip show the camera there like.
00:17:12 Chris L.
Yeah, it's it's a little messy in here.
00:17:14 Chris L.
It's a it's a little it's got even some pieces of some kind of stuff stuck to it.
00:17:19 Chris L.
I don't know. Anyway it says I bought this at the Christian Holiness Association. 1990 is when I got it. So you were only 10 years old then man yeah yeah. But yeah, great essays.
00:17:25 Andy Miller III
00:17:28 Andy Miller III
That's right, that's true, let's see.
00:17:32 Chris L.
And again, it's some great Salvation Army guys, you know a couple of booths are in here in, in some others great essays on holiness.
00:17:42 Chris L.
Various aspects, I really suggest anybody who wants to learn about holiness.
00:17:46 Chris L.
They need to read this.
00:17:46 Andy Miller III
OK, interesting, now it's interesting as I I put together my top five and you put together your top five.
00:17:47 Chris L.
Yeah, it's it's that important.
00:17:53 Andy Miller III
I was a little embarrassed that you included this and I didn't.
00:17:56 Chris L.
Oh well, there you go.
00:17:56 Andy Miller III
So there you go.
00:17:56 Andy Miller III
It's a really good book.
00:17:57 Andy Miller III
00:17:58 Andy Miller III
He was somebody who.
00:18:00 Andy Miller III
Prop brought together a lot of different resources and often had these compilations, and this is one of the great ones, so he probably probably 8 to 10 of these compilations.
00:18:08 Andy Miller III
Someone scriptures, someone preaching become the and the title itself I think is helpful. This comes from the Salvation Army's article of faith, the Salvation Army's tenth article of Faith that says we believe it is a privilege of all believers.
00:18:20 Andy Miller III
To be wholly sanctified now, just in that concept there you see, and it goes on.
00:18:24 Andy Miller III
Little bit longer, but the idea there is that we don't.
00:18:28 Andy Miller III
We aren't just saved, you know just to experience forgiveness, but we're saved to something that we have the opportunity to experience.
00:18:30 Chris L.
00:18:34 Andy Miller III
God saying, this is the privilege that we have as believers have the work of the Holy Spirit sanctifying us, OK?
00:18:40 Speaker 1
I like privilege, all believers.
00:18:43 Andy Miller III
Now we're getting down #3 we're throwing in doctor Dennis Kinlaw.
00:18:48 Andy Miller III
Now this is a tough one.
00:18:49 Andy Miller III
I thought about just bringing all these books up because they all.
00:18:51 Andy Miller III
Kind of deal with the same depth of stuff.
00:18:52 Chris L.
Mind of Christ.
00:18:53 Andy Miller III
Right, right, I was preaching despair that would have been a good one, but I think that let's start with Jesus.
00:18:54 Chris L.
00:18:59 Andy Miller III
Probably is the book that best summarizes his theology as a whole, and he has a last couple of chapters really trying to lay out a biblical case for the doctor.
00:19:10 Andy Miller III
Of entire sanctification and, and this is the prologue.
00:19:14 Andy Miller III
AMA, how do you say that word per ligament programming, given given OK to something that's coming out eventually?
00:19:17 Chris L.
00:19:17 Andy Miller III
Come on now.
00:19:20 Andy Miller III
Given a yeah, OK, that's going to be coming out like a more systematic theology, but this lays that out by saying let's look to Jesus.
00:19:30 Andy Miller III
Let's look to the person of Jesus and how he demonstrates us who God is, and so that's the way that they approach theology as a whole.
00:19:37 Andy Miller III
Will you have anything?
00:19:38 Andy Miller III
You want to say about.
00:19:38 Chris L.
This book not about this book, but I'll say.
00:19:41 Chris L.
That in it was.
00:19:44 Chris L.
And of Christ, yeah.
00:19:46 Chris L.
I had I used to have my students write a report on that back, went to college and this one lady wrote a report and she said the book is really good except it falls apart in the end mount of Christ.
00:19:58 Chris L.
It doesn't come down to a solution, so I told him that now this is interesting because you know you get critiques.
00:20:05 Chris L.
When you write something like this, you know, and it's hard to take sometimes, but I.
00:20:09 Chris L.
So I said I have this lady who wrote this critique of your book and she said in the end it falls apart and it doesn't come to it.
00:20:16 Chris L.
And he said, I absolutely agree.
00:20:19 Chris L.
00:20:19 Chris L.
Actually, it was at one time more, but they wanted me to take it down.
00:20:24 Chris L.
And so I did, he said, looking at it, he said she is right.
00:20:27 Chris L.
I don't come to this.
00:20:30 Chris L.
There's just a definite point.
00:20:31 Chris L.
It should come to, but it doesn't, and he said, I agree with her at such times.
00:20:34 Andy Miller III
00:20:35 Chris L.
It's interesting, you know.
00:20:36 Andy Miller III
Well I loved his humility in those areas too and so like and and I got to spend some time with Doctor Kinlaw and you might not actually find his books to be like.
00:20:37 Andy Miller III
00:20:44 Andy Miller III
OK, let's say like some of these books that might seem like a how to like hold everyday people like 25.
00:20:48 Andy Miller III
Ways to be hold out?
00:20:49 Andy Miller III
But it's like the foundation behind all they does when he looks at the Trinity when he looks at how God has revealed himself as father, son, Holy Spirit, 3 persons existing in a loving relationship for all time.
00:21:00 Andy Miller III
When he does that, like he, he draws out the implications of what that means for us to share, that that somehow we enter into the fellowship the Trinity.
00:21:08 Andy Miller III
And then looking at the person of Jesus and how Scripture points in all these directions about Old Testament image imagery.
00:21:14 Andy Miller III
So I find like even books like Doctor Kinlaw's lectures in Old Testament theology, well that's a three 400 page book on on holiness and it I I love it. So we I I have to just throw down Doctor Dennis.
00:21:23 Speaker 1
00:21:26 Chris L.
He he exuded that in his own life, yeah.
00:21:27 Andy Miller III
Came on there.
00:21:28 Andy Miller III
Yes, OK coming down now.
00:21:32 Andy Miller III
00:21:32 Andy Miller III
Why don't you tell us about #2? Who the author, 'cause it's the corpus as.
00:21:34 Chris L.
00:21:36 Chris L.
So that's correct.
00:21:37 Chris L.
Samuel Logan Bringle anything by Bringle is is very readable.
00:21:42 Chris L.
Bringle of course, again, one of those heroes, you know that you that happens early in my Christian life.
00:21:48 Andy Miller III
There it is.
00:21:49 Chris L.
There it is right there, everybody that's anybody has the red set like.
00:21:54 Chris L.
This yeah it's.
00:21:54 Andy Miller III
That's right, I know it's like a.
00:21:54 Chris L.
You gotta have that.
00:21:56 Andy Miller III
Status symbol almost.
00:21:56 Chris L.
It is it is we.
00:21:57 Chris L.
Do have that or not?
00:21:59 Chris L.
Bringle was a preacher.
00:22:02 Chris L.
Yeah, very very.
00:22:03 Chris L.
I I was going to say.
00:22:05 Chris L.
Capable, that's not really the word.
00:22:07 Chris L.
He when you.
00:22:07 Andy Miller III
Polished by a.
00:22:08 Chris L.
When you read about his preaching, the way he preached like he would do conversations, yeah in his sermons and stuff, but really like him and Paul kind of thing.
00:22:15 Chris L.
Is really interesting.
00:22:16 Chris L.
But then at some point he was injured, spent time in a hospital like nine months and was able to write.
00:22:23 Chris L.
And the books are there.
00:22:26 Chris L.
To me, they're very readable, but from an older day, you know he died in the early 1930s and car crash 34.
00:22:29 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right, right.
00:22:34 Chris L.
But you know most of his work was probably right at the turn of the century there, and he he was.
00:22:40 Chris L.
He was interesting way, he writes, and the things.
00:22:44 Chris L.
He says, but I think, and we've talked about this, that the reason I think Bringle still works today is because he didn't take some of the hard, fast kind of thoughts that come along.
00:22:55 Chris L.
For instance, one of the things in the holiness movement was the concept of eradication that what we have in US is a sin nature, a thing that has to be.
00:22:59 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:23:04 Chris L.
Taken out, rather than your nature, being cleansed of sin, sin being expelled, some people think it's some some extra nature that has to be expelled.
00:23:13 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:23:15 Chris L.
He didn't do that.
00:23:16 Andy Miller III
Yes yes yes.
00:23:16 Chris L.
His works don't take that kind of.
00:23:19 Chris L.
Uhm, that, in fact.
00:23:21 Chris L.
You could probably argue all three of the ways, yeah?
00:23:24 Andy Miller III
You could you could.
00:23:25 Chris L.
It's very interesting and yet, and yet he does come down to some real.
00:23:29 Andy Miller III
Real stuff here now and I would recommend if you want to learn more about Bringle Sialis.
00:23:32 Andy Miller III
This is the problem that in my tradition, so it's I've always been fascinated by other holiness traditions like yours.
00:23:38 Andy Miller III
I've even gone to some.
00:23:39 Andy Miller III
You know, very obscure camp meetings, and I'll find these books there, like they they love, and so that's been interesting for me then the Salvation Army.
00:23:43 Chris L.
00:23:46 Andy Miller III
People will say, well, you want to learn about WH.
00:23:48 Andy Miller III
Miss take Bringle.
00:23:50 Andy Miller III
Well, I actually say whoa.
00:23:51 Andy Miller III
Just just wait a second like this is kind of like more devotional reflections upon like Christian themes and holiness as a whole.
00:23:59 Andy Miller III
It's not a systematic presentation, so if you're interested in brangle theology, I'll refer you to Doctor David Rightmire sanctified sanity.
00:24:08 Chris L.
Oh yeah, that's good.
00:24:09 Andy Miller III
And what he shows until he brings all all these books together in letters and various articles and what he does is, he is, he puts it systematically into one presentation.
00:24:19 Andy Miller III
And what his one of his main points in that book.
00:24:22 Andy Miller III
I don't know if I say it's his thesis, but what he?
00:24:24 Andy Miller III
He says is that Brangle brought to the Salvation Army.
00:24:28 Andy Miller III
I'll move away from what we want, what we classified as the short way to an emphasis on waving in the spirit.
00:24:35 Chris L.
Which is the middle way, yeah?
00:24:35 Andy Miller III
For this fear, exactly and that like that was something that was missing in the Salvation Army tradition.
00:24:40 Andy Miller III
And this is more Wesleyan perspective that he was able to bring so.
00:24:45 Chris L.
Yeah he I.
00:24:47 Chris L.
I think these.
00:24:47 Chris L.
Books probably best read for someone who's in the process.
00:24:51 Chris L.
And needs the fire to keep moving forward and wait it.
00:24:56 Chris L.
It's like that it's not like it's a some kind of a beginning place, you know, but it is for someone who's who's there and needs some fire.
00:25:04 Chris L.
It's it is encouragement to to wait and move forward spiritually.
00:25:08 Andy Miller III
Yeah, and my my grandfather would every year kind of like have his fire ignited again by a relationship with Bringle.
00:25:15 Andy Miller III
In this sense, he would read, and this is one of my grandfathers copies of helps to holiness or the first book that Bringle put out.
00:25:21 Andy Miller III
Which by the way you know some of his books were not necessarily written.
00:25:24 Andy Miller III
As like a comprehensive argument, yeah, there sometimes just a series of articles that he wrote and he put them all together in one, but he would take this.
00:25:32 Speaker 1
00:25:33 Andy Miller III
This is the 9th edition entry had so many editions of these books, but my grandfather read them in November and December every year and I I'm really well.
00:25:41 Andy Miller III
I love how I have.
00:25:42 Andy Miller III
I have one of my treasures I found is a gift.
00:25:44 Andy Miller III
Since his book Ancient Prophets, I have this one signed by.
00:25:47 Andy Miller III
00:25:48 Chris L.
Oh no no yeah nice.
00:25:48 Andy Miller III
It's not to me, of course.
00:25:49 Andy Miller III
00:25:50 Andy Miller III
But anyhow, that was those are special, so the all of Bengals books as a whole.
00:25:55 Andy Miller III
Yeah, which now you mentioned one that.
00:25:56 Andy Miller III
You've stuck into.
00:25:57 Chris L.
Come holy guest.
00:25:58 Andy Miller III
Or the holy the guests of the soul.
00:26:01 Andy Miller III
There's did you combine two of them there?
00:26:02 Chris L.
I did I it's a it's a combination.
00:26:05 Andy Miller III
Guests of the soul, I think, is it.
00:26:06 Chris L.
Yeah, guest of the soul yeah.
00:26:08 Chris L.
And then there was something that was written when they put two of them together and they called it come.
00:26:11 Andy Miller III
Oh right, there's a Bob Hostetler made a kind of.
00:26:13 Chris L.
Holy yeah yeah.
00:26:15 Andy Miller III
Took out some of the old English type of things and then, like yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.
00:26:17 Chris L.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
00:26:18 Chris L.
Yeah, but this.
00:26:19 Chris L.
The idea of the guest instead of Ghost was interesting.
00:26:20 Andy Miller III
00:26:23 Chris L.
When I I remember reading that early on in my holy guest, I think is that he might even call him that.
00:26:29 Andy Miller III
00:26:30 Andy Miller III
So he, he says that the Anglo-Saxon word.
00:26:32 Chris L.
For Ghost yeah yeah.
00:26:33 Andy Miller III
Could also be guest and so then he goes in and he says like we think of the Holy Spirit as the guest of our soul.
00:26:39 Chris L.
And that really, that really had an impact on me because of that concept, I'd never really considered it.
00:26:46 Chris L.
In that way, before until that.
00:26:49 Andy Miller III
Yeah, and said I taught this in.
00:26:51 Andy Miller III
I talk systematic theology course in Mexico and it's a class where we talk about the way of salvation and the doctor in the Holy Spirit.
00:26:57 Andy Miller III
And I tried.
00:26:58 Andy Miller III
I used the guest of the soul idea, but.
00:27:00 Andy Miller III
You know they don't have trouble in Spanish 'cause they don't have the challenge of the.
00:27:05 Andy Miller III
Most, they don't use the word ghost or you were a guest, and so I I had this whole great presentation and emotional moment.
00:27:10 Andy Miller III
It didn't work.
00:27:11 Andy Miller III
And then the translator looked even said.
00:27:13 Andy Miller III
Not gonna work in Spanish.
00:27:14 Andy Miller III
'cause I felt it felt kind of badly. OK, we made it #1.
00:27:17 Andy Miller III
Now before I get the number one, I want you to know that I have a free resource available for people that if you sign up for my email, let's say Andy Miller.
00:27:25 Andy Miller III
The third com that's Andy Miller IE com.
00:27:28 Andy Miller III
There's a tab where you can sign up for my email list.
00:27:30 Andy Miller III
I will send you a free resource, a four page document that is meant for teachers and preachers to move through the exegetica process with the aim of creatively preaching and teaching.
00:27:41 Andy Miller III
So like, how do you actually like?
00:27:42 Andy Miller III
Like what do you do between those phases of of studying a passage and then actually preparing a sermon or preparing a teaching lesson?
00:27:50 Andy Miller III
How do you do that in a way that connects to your students or the people that you're called to serve?
00:27:54 Andy Miller III
So just encourage you if you want that resource, you can sign up for my email list.
00:27:57 Andy Miller III
I'd love to have you there.
00:27:58 Andy Miller III
And now we've made it.
00:28:00 Andy Miller III
For the dramatic moment the.
00:28:01 Andy Miller III
Reveal the number one book from the holiest tradition.
00:28:07 Andy Miller III
You won't tell.
00:28:07 Chris L.
Us it I thought you're gonna say can I give a drumroll yeah?
00:28:10 Andy Miller III
I'll drumroll Java John Wesley's sermon the scripture way of salvation and as a placeholder I have a plane at crown of Christian for perfection, which we recommend as well, but it's not a book. We're recommending a sermon. Why are we doing that, Chris?
00:28:19 Chris L.
Yeah, there you go.
00:28:21 Chris L.
00:28:23 Chris L.
Yeah, yeah, I think that sermon is Wesley's best.
00:28:30 Chris L.
00:28:33 Chris L.
Description and teaching on sanctification.
00:28:36 Chris L.
What it is and how to receive it.
00:28:38 Andy Miller III
00:28:39 Chris L.
That's his clearest work on it.
00:28:41 Chris L.
If that's all he had written.
00:28:42 Andy Miller III
And not just sanctification though too.
00:28:43 Speaker 1
He would not no no.
00:28:44 Andy Miller III
Like I mean it's like the order of salvation as a whole like this.
00:28:44 Chris L.
No, it's not.
00:28:47 Andy Miller III
This outlines all of it and and I think like people if we were to find it, and even that quote love excluding or love eliminating sin, that that comes from that sermon.
00:28:56 Andy Miller III
Yeah, yeah, so.
00:28:57 Andy Miller III
So tell us about some of the kind of key highlights from that sermon.
00:29:01 Chris L.
OK, so yeah he does.
00:29:03 Chris L.
He distinguishes there's probably two or three things that happened.
00:29:06 Chris L.
Very important, he distinguishes in it between justification and regeneration, but he also says that when you have initial salvation when when God does so in justification doesn't work for you, regeneration or work in you.
00:29:11 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:29:21 Andy Miller III
00:29:21 Chris L.
But when he does that work in you, you are transformed and that's what he calls.
00:29:27 Chris L.
Initial sanctification, right?
00:29:30 Chris L.
When you are justified, you are sanctified now.
00:29:34 Chris L.
Then he says, and this is important.
00:29:36 Chris L.
When a person is born again and they think they're done with the sin business, it doesn't take long until they realize, hey.
00:29:43 Chris L.
Something is not right.
00:29:44 Chris L.
They come to understand that within themselves, maybe not on the outward part 'cause he thinks you know if you're born again, you are victorious.
00:29:51 Chris L.
You're not going to be living in sin, but you're going to come to some.
00:29:55 Chris L.
I call them brick walls in your own life.
00:29:57 Chris L.
Certain attitudes of the soul which you know.
00:30:02 Chris L.
Are not transformed and the reason for that is because you have all the Holy Spirit, but he doesn't have all of you.
00:30:09 Chris L.
And So what Wesley says secondly.
00:30:12 Chris L.
Is he says then the gradual work of sanctification begins and see a lot of times the holiness movement.
00:30:19 Chris L.
If you talk about gradual sanctification, people get nervous.
00:30:21 Andy Miller III
00:30:22 Chris L.
Yeah, 'cause they think we're talking about progressive like it's always just kind of growing but never doing.
00:30:24 Andy Miller III
Right, right, right.
00:30:27 Chris L.
But that's not what Wesley saying before between the initial sanctification.
00:30:33 Chris L.
When you receive the spirit and entire sanctification when he has all of you and he is cleansing all of you between that.
00:30:40 Chris L.
There is this process of taking up your cross and that's what it is.
00:30:44 Andy Miller III
Dying to self.
00:30:45 Chris L.
Take up the cross data self and and he says the and this is an important statement for me.
00:30:50 Chris L.
The more dead to sin you are, the more alive to God you are, so the court.
00:30:55 Chris L.
There's a correlation between your relationship with sin and your relationship with.
00:30:58 Chris L.
00:31:00 Chris L.
As you died to sin.
00:31:01 Chris L.
Then you will find the life of God more fully at work in you.
00:31:06 Chris L.
So while you have all the spirit, he's unlocking those doors in your life and you're you're unlocking the doors and letting him in.
00:31:13 Chris L.
You're giving him access to every part of who you are, and that's what Wesley was thinking when he was thinking about entirely sanctified.
00:31:22 Chris L.
That is, all of you is being sanctified, so you've now allowed this spirit into all of who you are.
00:31:24 Andy Miller III
00:31:30 Chris L.
It doesn't mean that you're done, it means it's about the depth, not the doneness, and so he lays that out in this sermon.
00:31:32 Andy Miller III
00:31:39 Chris L.
And then of course he also lays out.
00:31:40 Chris L.
How do you wait for it?
00:31:42 Chris L.
What do you do?
00:31:42 Chris L.
And that's where he says works of piety.
00:31:44 Chris L.
00:31:45 Chris L.
Mercy and I think as I look at it, this is my.
00:31:45 Andy Miller III
00:31:48 Chris L.
Own opinion on it.
00:31:50 Chris L.
Why would those two things be necessary?
00:31:52 Chris L.
And here's what I think if the problem is that our soul is turned inward right for satisfaction, so the self centeredness and all that.
00:32:01 Chris L.
Sinfulness how do you get the soul to become outward again?
00:32:06 Chris L.
And so as you practice works of piety, you're reading the scripture, you're studying it, you're praying, worship all that stuff.
00:32:13 Andy Miller III
00:32:16 Chris L.
You're looking to God in all that right?
00:32:17 Chris L.
And that's opening you up.
00:32:19 Chris L.
See and then as you are serving.
00:32:21 Chris L.
Others 'cause works of mercy is anything you would do for the body or souls of men.
00:32:25 Chris L.
Everything from feeding them.
00:32:27 Chris L.
Agree to teaching as he calls it the the stupid senseless center.
00:32:31 Chris L.
Everything you do for somebody else.
00:32:33 Chris L.
It's about reaching outside yourself, right?
00:32:35 Chris L.
So as you're reaching up to God and out to others, you're wide open to what I've got, and that's where he works.
00:32:41 Chris L.
That's where the rubber meets the road.
00:32:42 Chris L.
That's where the sparks.
00:32:43 Chris L.
Happen is when you.
00:32:45 Chris L.
00:32:46 Chris L.
He's able to speak.
00:32:47 Chris L.
To you, and that's where it happened.
00:32:47 Andy Miller III
00:32:49 Chris L.
So you're fully there.
00:32:51 Chris L.
You're totally open to him, and that is how you wait.
00:32:55 Chris L.
And then of course, he says in there.
00:32:57 Chris L.
By the way, you can have it now, yeah, and.
00:32:58 Andy Miller III
Seek it now seek that type of.
00:33:01 Andy Miller III
Not like not that's not like.
00:33:03 Andy Miller III
Enter into the Phoebe Palmer language.
00:33:04 Andy Miller III
There is a this is like seek that type of spirit right now where you are giving all that.
00:33:10 Andy Miller III
You are right at this time and then you are opening yourself up correct in service.
00:33:15 Chris L.
And so to that person, he says, is it gradual or instantaneous?
00:33:19 Chris L.
And I think some people misunderstand that they think.
00:33:21 Chris L.
They think all the way back you're born again.
00:33:24 Chris L.
Now you can be entirely sanctified instantaneously.
00:33:27 Chris L.
That's not what he says he's talking about when you know sin is gone, is that gradual or instantaneous, and that's talking to the person who's waiting.
00:33:35 Chris L.
Dead to self.
00:33:36 Chris L.
Trusting in God and then, he says, sometimes it's gradual and you can't point to a day in time, but it's happened, but sometimes it's instantaneous and you know.
00:33:40 Andy Miller III
00:33:43 Andy Miller III
00:33:46 Chris L.
Oh yeah, yesterday I experienced this thing but he lays out exactly how to get there in the fact that you have to trust God for it and wait for it and and and believe him for it.
00:33:56 Chris L.
And apply it to.
00:33:57 Andy Miller III
Your life one things that we do here.
00:33:58 Andy Miller III
Westin Biblical Seminary that we instituted.
00:34:00 Andy Miller III
Like the faculty.
00:34:01 Andy Miller III
The fact what we call faculty assembly decided that we wanted to have a moment in every course.
00:34:07 Andy Miller III
Where a teacher takes time to lay out what you just said in somewhere and then their own experience with that, even if that leads not to a place where you say there was this minute where I did this right?
00:34:19 Andy Miller III
But this process where God Holy Spirit is at work in us, freeing us from the power of sin and giving us an opportunity.
00:34:27 Andy Miller III
To breathe in, breathe out as we experience what God wants for us and who he's calling.
00:34:31 Andy Miller III
Us to be.
00:34:32 Andy Miller III
So like we, we tried to have those moments and what would you say somebody right?
00:34:35 Andy Miller III
Now, like who's saying?
00:34:36 Andy Miller III
Ah, I'm not sure Chris do I have that?
00:34:38 Andy Miller III
Should I do that?
00:34:39 Andy Miller III
00:34:40 Andy Miller III
What, what should I seek right now?
00:34:41 Andy Miller III
What should I do?
00:34:42 Chris L.
Well, if you're Christian and you're not sure that you are entirely sanctified that God, God is sanctifying you in every part of who you are, then I, as I often do, I suggest people take a look at your life and ask you this question.
00:34:57 Chris L.
Ask yourself this question, what part of me is not?
00:35:02 Chris L.
Open to God, what's not?
00:35:05 Chris L.
I guarantee you the door that's still shut is the place that's not redeemed.
00:35:09 Chris L.
You know he can only he only said can he only redeems what you give him?
00:35:09 Andy Miller III
00:35:14 Chris L.
Yeah, and so I think you should maybe on A and this shouldn't be a weird thing, but maybe on a regular basis.
00:35:19 Chris L.
Just ask yourself is there some part of my life?
00:35:22 Chris L.
That's not open to his sanctifying touch, and you'll find those things if you ask yourself that on regular basis, you will find it you'll be going through life and.
00:35:23 Andy Miller III
00:35:30 Chris L.
Also, you saying, oh?
00:35:33 Chris L.
There's a place that's not open.
00:35:34 Chris L.
And so I say, open that door.
00:35:36 Chris L.
Ask yourself why begin to deal with who you are and then trust God for it.
00:35:41 Chris L.
Because the reality is sometimes you can believe in your head.
00:35:46 Chris L.
But not rest in your heart.
00:35:49 Chris L.
And it's just like sitting down.
00:35:50 Chris L.
Always say you can say, I know this chair will help me and I know it can hold me.
00:35:54 Chris L.
But you got to stop standing at some point and in your own life.
00:35:55 Andy Miller III
00:35:57 Chris L.
Maybe you just.
00:35:58 Chris L.
Need to stop standing.
00:35:58 Andy Miller III
Yeah, you know when you talk about the opening up all that you are to God like is there any area of your life you're holding back?
00:36:05 Andy Miller III
00:36:05 Andy Miller III
Book called holiness. He has a definition of sin that I found really helpful and it's very similar. He says sin is any area of our life where we reject God's presence. Any area of our life where we reject the presence of God.
00:36:17 Chris L.
Present and you know, sometimes you don't do that like openly you.
00:36:20 Chris L.
You don't just say you know what I don't.
00:36:21 Chris L.
Want God grace there, but you do.
00:36:23 Chris L.
Do it in the in the way you live and the the fact is the walls that we have built in our lives to protect ourselves from other people.
00:36:31 Chris L.
Protect us from God, so to speak, and they also keep us in too.
00:36:36 Chris L.
But but yeah, we we've built walls around various parts of our life for protection.
00:36:41 Chris L.
For for security.
00:36:44 Chris L.
We oftentimes not only don't let people in there, but we don't let God in there.
00:36:48 Chris L.
It's very hard to look at those places, but that's what we have to do.
00:36:51 Andy Miller III
Wow, well thank you so much for coming and joining me on this. So our top top one is not just John Wesley's applying crop for Christian perfection or all of his sermons, but we're saying a scripture way of salvation.
00:37:02 Andy Miller III
If you want to learn about holiness, that's the number one book.
00:37:05 Andy Miller III
So thanks so much for joining me, Chris.
00:37:06 Speaker 1
00:37:06 Andy Miller III
It's been a great treat to have you here.
00:37:07 Andy Miller III
Thank you for coming to Morton Story podcast.
00:37:09 Andy Miller III
We trust you'll take this.
00:37:11 Andy Miller III
Maybe you could.
00:37:11 Andy Miller III
Send a link to this share.
00:37:13 Andy Miller III
It maybe text it there somebody send an email like this.
00:37:15 Andy Miller III
Make a comment that would help us out as we spread this message because I believe that God wants to sanctify you through and through God.
00:37:22 Andy Miller III